Were Early Cartoons Racist?

Great Debates
21

Cal, if you’ve seen any of the “Censored 11” (only one of which is on the Cartoon Network list of Bugs Cartoons it won’t show) at film festivals, you’ve been watching bootlegs. Warner has adamantly forbidden any distribution of the “Censored 11” since 1967.

Regarding the list of Bugs cartoons that Cartoon Network isn’t going to show, I got this list from Mobo in the Pit thread, but I’m adding to it. My comments will be in italics

1.Hiawatha’s Rabbit Hunt (Native Americans)

2.All This And Rabbit Stew (blacks-ironically, Beck’s book doesn’t mention the hunter is black) Since this is the only one on the list that’s one of the famous “Censored 11”, I don’t believe that Cartoon Network could have the rights to show this even if they wanted to. And even by my very un-PC standards, this one is a truly, TRULY ugly cartoon. (With some very funny Bob Clampett gags)

3.Any Bonds Today? (Bugs imitates Jolson) Not showing this one is stupid. It’s an important bit of history, it’s one of the few “fat Elmer” cartoons (where they tried to make Elmer look like the guy who did his voice) and the “Mammy, dontcha love me?” bit that Bugs does is short. If they felt they had to, they could easily cut it

4.What’s Cookin’ Doc? (clip from “Hiawatha” shown)

5.Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips (wartime Japanese) While historically signifigant, and extremely funny, the part at the end where Bugs is calling the Japanese “Monkey Face”, “Slant Eyes” etc is a bit over the top. I can imagine the reaction of a Chinese or Japanese American who saw this in the theaters when it was released. But boy is it a good cartoon.

6.Herr Meets Hare (wartime Nazi/Germans) I don’t understand the banning of this one. It makes Nazis look bad. Why is that a problem? And the Goering as Sigfried on the fat pony bit is sides-hurting-from-laughing-too-much funny.

7.Which is Witch? (African witch doctor)

8.A Feather in His Hare (Native Americans)

9.Frigid Hare (Eskimos) *Bugs calls the Eskimo “Baboon Face”. I had no idea that Innuit people were more sensitive to being called “baboon face” than any other group. :rolleyes: This seems hypersensitive. *

10.Bushy Hare (Aborigines/blacks) I dunno. I haven’t seen this one in decades and I can still remember the interchange between Bugs and the Aborigine (“Unga-Bunga-BUNGA!” says the Aborigine. “Oh yeah?” replies Bugs “Unga-Bunga-Bunga-Binga-Binga-Bunga-BunnnnnnnnnnGA!”…The Aborignie then goes nuts). This one seems like hypersensitivity to me.

11.Horse Hare (Native Americans)

12.Mississippi Hare (Civil War-era blacks)

Keep in mind, just 'cause they’re not showing these 12 doesn’t mean the remaing 350(? Maybe) cartoons aren’t cut.
I guarantee that when “Southern Fried Hare” shows up, the hysterical ‘slave beating’ scene (see previous thread for detailed description) won’t be there. And I still commend Cartoon Network for restoring MOST of the WB cartoons.

**

I also don’t understand Disney’s reluctance to show it’s wartime cartoons. Even by today’s standards, making Nazi’s look bad is GOOD right? So why the reluctance to show some of it’s history?

Fenris

22

AMC – or one of the classic-movie networks – shows the Three Stooges. They have Leslie Nielsen as host and everything.

(And I remember Nickelodeon showing Speedy Gonzales cartoons when they aired Looney Tunes, but that was years ago.)

Cal – the cartoons in question are listed in the thread linked to in the OP. To borrow from a post made by mobo85:

(Also, I loved Connecticut Yankee, and I’m Catholic, though not particularly devout, I must admit. :))

As for the cartoons themselves: the prevailing opinion seems to be that they should be shown “after hours,” with the historical context made clear – as historical documents, I guess. I can’t find much to disagree with there.

(Eutychus – how was Bamboozled? That one’s on my list of Movies That Look Intriguing.)

23

Dysfractionation strikes! Fenris got to the list before I could – and with better commentary, too. :wink:

24

I am gonna repeat myself, since the discussion seems to have moved over here. I think that seeing the casual racism in things like these WB cartoons shows the insidous nature of racism better than any race riot footage. It is really easy to let ourselves believe that the racists of the past were all 3-toothed drooling rednecks who pulled out the lynching rope at the drop of the hat. That is a legacy that it is easy to distance ourselves from. But really really nice people used to be racists: people who would never have dreamed of whipping someone, or hanging them, or anything that extreme, had no problem laughing at these sorts of charecitures. We can console ourselves that we wouldn’t have participated in lynchings had we lived in the 40s–most people didn’t, after all–but we probably would not have seen anything wrong with these cartoons. Being a basically good person is no protection against falling into the patterns of bigoted assumptions, and I think that things like these early cartoons bring that point home much better than somber documentaries that focus on the very worst atrocities.

25

It was good, if you like Lee’s work. It comes across as rather his version of “Natural Born Killers” except about race instead of violence, in that he takes things to such an extreme and smacks you over the head with it to make his point. The reason I tied this in was because Lee uses scenes from some of the 'toons mentioned here in a montage at the end to make his point. I can agree that some of it is offensive, but some is historical as well. You can’t show blacks as slaves without offending some people, but that was the historical reality. Nonetheless, I agree that they should still be shown because most of them are important in the history of animation, at least, but with disclaimers that show that they were made in a different era with different ways of thinking.

Two other thought points :

1 : Someone alluded above to Speedy Gonzales, and I wonder if there is some selective censorship happening with whoever complains the most. You almost never hear latinos complaining about the lazy Mexican mice in those 'toons, and they are rarely edited.

2 : If aliens ever do come to earth, will we be having this discussion 100 years down the road about Marvin the Martian? :wink:

26

All the Martians will have to do is blast us with the Iludium Q-37 Explosive Space Modulator!

27

Fenris and Katisha – thanks for the lists.

As for Warner Bothers banning the cartoons since 1967, I anm surprised. I would never have guessed they were bootlegs – the cartoons I’ve seen were often of superb quality. Are you SURE they didn’t make exceptions?

There are plenty of other examples out there that aren’t banned. I think Leonard Maltin’s ** Cartoons for Big Kids** has some examples of poking fun at gays, for instance. After they released the movie Dick Tracy about nine years ago, I understand that Disney tried running the old 1960s Dick Tracy cartoons. These featured characters like Joe Jitsu (Japanese detective) and Go-Go Gomez (like Speedy Gonzalez, a fast Mexican – this is sort of reverse racism, since the joke is on the supposed lethargy of the Mexicans). They also featured a British Bulldog named Hemlock Holmes, but I never heard of any complaints about him. In any case, Disney was forced to pull the cartoons in short order because of complaints, or so I’ve heard. Actually, the cartoon detectives were invariably clever and successful, but I suppose the reverse racism of Gomez and the buck-toothed portrayal of Joe were a little extreme.
For myself, I wondered about Neil Simon’s (Neil Simon’s!) portrayal of the hispanic maid in the movie Seems Like Old Times circa 1980. I still think this one’s going to look insulting and embarassing in the future.

The insidious thing about these cartoons is that they show us NOT what was considered vile racism, but what was considered the norm, even harmless joking. Read the book 1939 – the Lost World of the Fair and marvel at the African exhibits, or the section in The Big Book of Hoaxes (or is it the one on Freaks?) about the Fair exhibit “Darkest Africa”. This stuff was supposed to be EDUCATIONAL! It’s the hidden assumptions of Normal Decent people, rather than the rantings of the rabid, that can do the most harm.

28

Re: Mention of old Three Stooges shorts

I’m sure that AMC has a list of Stooges shorts they won’t show. I remember seeing a couple of Stooges shorts set in a haunted house with Mantan Moreland bugging out his eyes at the “spookeses.” Offensive stuff, yet also really funny, like the comedy routines lifted by Spike Lee from early 20th century black comedians and used in Bamboozled. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing watching the antics of Mantan and Sleep’n’Eat.

Back in the day, dialects and ethnic humor were very much in fashion, so you had comedy routines aimed at Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish, Scots, and whoever else just got off the boat. Blacks weren’t being singled out. I also think that you have to bring discernment into play. Some comedy, like Stepin Fetchit’s routines, were demeaning and based on mocking blacks as being slow-witted subhumans laughingly protected and tolerated by their genial white masters. Other
comics, like Amos and Andy, employed universal comedy archetypes (the straight man and the clown, the braggart exposed, the fast-talking conman who gets caught in his own schemes) that would be just as funny if the comics ** hadn’t** played in blackface.

It’s hard for me to become indignant about the endemic racism in movies and cartoons 70 years ago when in 2001 I can watch network TV and see that the criminals on cop shows are predominantly played by black and Hispanic actors, while the lawyers and cops are played by white actors. I’m not at all sure that our era is any more enlightened than previous generations. Robert Townsend’s pointed satire on racial sterotypes in entertainment, * Hollywood Shuffle*, was released in 1987, and I don’t think we’ve made much progress since then.

I think the PC Posse has gone too far. Some cartoons, like Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarves, should not be shown to children, but I don’t think they should be expunged forever. Possibly CN or Warner could use those old cartoons as part of a program about the history of racial sterotypes in general and how viewers should be aware of how comedy can demean other people.

However, cartoons that have black or Hispanic characters should not be censored for that reason alone. * Bushy Hare* is hilarious and IMHO does not mock Aborigines as a group. The humor in Speedy Gonzalez cartoons does not stem from the character’s ethnicity. You might as well say the the SG cartoons also discriminate against mice. The humor comes from Speedy being fast and smart and the cat’s being
slow and stupid. The cartoons would work just as well if Speedy were Anglo.

29

Well, I know Warner doesn’t make exceptions, but after checking around a bit, apparently the situation is somewhat more complicated than I thought: some Warner cartoons have entered the public domain due to Warner’s neglect of the copyright (they didn’t renew something on some of the cartoons…and I’m using the term “copyright” loosely.)

Some of the “Censored 11” are in the public domain. The only one I could confirm was that “All This and Rabbit Stew” is PD, but it’s likely that more of them are. Despite this, Warner will not allow it’s prints to be shown from what I’ve read. I’ve never seen a clean copy of, say “Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs” or “Angel Puss”: some copies are more watchable than others, but I’ve never seen pristine copies <sigh>.

**

Big Book of Freaks, I believe.

I understand that “Uncle Tom”/“Aunt Jemima”/“Pickaninny” stereotypes were considered harmless and even today I can watch cartoons with 'em, realize they’re wrong and still enjoy the cartoon, but I have trouble coping with the idea that…how to say this…non-bedsheet wearing people considered the vicious stuff in “Angel Puss” or “Rabbit Stew” to be acceptable in polite company. (Obviously it was given the theatrical release, but…!!!)

And dammit Cal, you just cost me money: “1939 – The Lost World of the Fair” sounded so cool that I just ordered a copy. :wink:

Fenris

30

Fenris:

I’m not bragging, 'cause I don’t think I’ve done anything difficult, but I’ve seen gorgeous copies of “Coal Black and the Sebbin Dwarves” on numerous occasions. Heck I’m sure it’s available on videotape – maybe even DVD by now. Look in The Whole Toon Catalog for starters (Facets Multi-media, 1517 West Fullerton Ave, Chicago. (800) 331-6197. They probably have a website by now.)

Coal Black, by Bob Clampett, is infuriating – the animation is goddam gorgeous, the pace is frenetic, the sweep is intoxicating, and it’s incredibly funny. It’s also cramed full of the most insulting, gross stereotypes imaginable. It’s hard to believe the piling on" of racial stereotypes wasn’t intentional – there are so damned many of them coming at you one after another. One might argue, by way f itigation, that Clampett was doing this to make fun of the stereotypes themselves. But you feel guilty laughing at them. If I were black I’m sure I’d be insulted.So what do you do with a flick like his? Show it at adults-only midnight shows, I guess.

We’ve mentioned arner’s and Disney, but all of the studios were guilty of it. Walter Lantz made “Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B”, using the 1940s song – but all the soldiers are black, and hackneyed. MGM has cut the ffnsive stereotypes out of its cartoons, sometimes with snip, sometimes (as with “Mammy Two Shoes” from the “Tom and Jerry” cartoons) by re-animating.

31

I’m surprised that the cartoon “Uncle Tom’s Cabaña” appears on neither the Warner Censored 11 list, nor on the list of cartoons Cartoon Network won’t show.

32

If “Frigid Hare” IS on the Censored 11 list how come it was on the Cartoon Network within the last two years? I’ve got it on my cartoon tapes which I recorded from that television channel.

33

The confusion is that there’re two sets of cartoons that aren’t being shown. Cartoon Network has decided not to show 12 Bugs Bunnys in it’s JuneBugs marathon (where they intend to show every remaining Bugs cartoon). One of the 12 that the Cartoon Network has chosen not to show is “Frigid Hare”.

The “Censored 11” refer to 11 cartoons that Warner won’t allow to be released. More info can be found at the link I put in a previous post. The only cartoon that’s on both lists is “All This And Rabbit Stew” which is both funny and very ugly.

(I feel like drawing a Venn Diagram) :smiley:

Fenris

34

I’ve never heard of 'em. Their website just tells you to call for a catalogue. Which I’ll be doing tomorrow! Thanks for the tip.:slight_smile:
**

I read somewhere (and I agree) that it would take almost 15 years to equal it’s imaginative style and sophistication in “What’s Opera Doc”.

**

I agree, and I’ve been meaning to ask: I’ve never heard the stereotype that Blacks can’t resist dice except in Warner cartoons. Am I sheltered, or was this some weird Warner thing?

Fenris

35

To answer question 1, any stereotype, racist or otherwise, doesn’t have to go very far at all before it becomes offensive to someone. We have thin skins today, and corporations have become very sensitive to this type of accusation.

With respect to question 2, part A, I suspect that we are not mature enough to do this. People (as a general group) have a very poor track record of being able to contemplate things in their context, but instead are conditioned today to make snap judgements using today’s “enlightened” veiwpoints.

These cartoons, movies, books etc. are valuable in thier own right when they can be viewed and discussed as reflecting popular opinions and cultural perceptions. The “offensive” ones can be effective tools in demonstrating what is wrong with the portrayal of the characters.

An often overlooked point is that all of the characters in any of these cartoons are intended as larger-than-life caricatures. Characters and situations are exagerated beyond the point of reality, and I think that most kids catch onto this quite quickly. Even the youngest viewer knows that the Coyote really can’t fall off a thousand foot cliff and walk away with scratches. C’mon, let’s face it - most cartoons have all of the subtlety of a sledgehammer. If you really want offensive stereotypes, and more insidious ones, look at the 50’s westerns for the portrayal of the American Indians, or the 30’s crime shows for the negative images of the Asians, Italians, or blacks.

36

HOLY SHIT!!! I was thinking about starting a thread on this. tomndebb, I just finished reading the first Dr. Doolittle to my 7-year-old boy. I’d never read it before, and had no idea what it contained. It was fine up to that point and then, pow! I was flabbergasted. But I read those chapters anyway (the book contained the original etchings, and the immensely exaggerated stereotypical "black’ features), and we had a pretty good talk about how things were when the book was written, and how much better they are now. So all in all I think it was productive and a good experience.

Re: the OP, running the offending toons later, hosted by someone who explains the background and history of the toons, would be a great idea. But I don’t think they belong in the mid-day line up, where Junior’s likely to encounter them without parental guidance.

37

As the conversation seems to be shifting towards early racist portrayals in entertainment, I am gonna add my own story.

One of the pride and joys of my book collection is the collected works of the comic strip Buck Rogers. The strip started in 1929, and the interesting thing about it is the way it trys to be progresive. Indians are shown as freedom fighters, for instance, with the full respect of the rest of the resistance, but they still wear feathers in their hair and say “how!” even as they crank up their airplanes. Women are activly involved in the resistence, shown acting as seconds on missions, working as “electronists”, and to her credit, Wilma does attempt to escape in the first real adventure, but they still tend to get jealous, act catty, and get rescued alot. And they wear really short skirts.

On the other hand, while they make the attempt to show women and Indians in a positive light, the treatment of “mongols” is so racist and ignorant it almost has to be seen to be believed. The image of the Mongol Emperor praying “Buddha speed the day when thou will be mine oh lovely one” as he lusts after the heroine Wilma seems centuries, not decades, out of date to modern eyes. There is this persistaint them of 'Mongols want to fuck, but not marry, our women, beware!" Then there is the scene when an Indian (named Lonewolf) gets captured by the Mongels. They approach his plane and say “Good! A splindid specimin for our vivisection labratories!”

38

Hey, how come the Warner Brothers cartoon with the feuding hillbillies didn’t make the “banned” list?

As long as we’re whitewashing past stereotypes, can’t we whitewash the old “ignorant hillbillies” stereotype, too?

Other offenders: The Beverly Hillbillies, The Real McCoys, Li’l Abner, Pogo, Snuffy Smith. Ban 'em all!

39

A while ago in the USGA magazine they did a feature on the history of golf in the comics. Someone wrote a letter and complained that they shouldn’t have used “The Yellow Kid” because it was offensive to Asians. Their response was all but “Dumbass, his shirt is yellow. THAT’S why he’s the yellow kid.”

40

Since this sentiment has been expressed several times in this thread, I thought I’d just point out that Cartoon Network has a program called “Late Night Black & White” on Sunday nights (9:00 PM PST/12:00 AM EST) which features uncensored WB, Paramount, and MGM cartoons. Of course they don’t show anything too bad, like any of the “censored 11,” but I have seen, among other things, Porky Pig parodying Cab Calloway and “Mr. Motto,” an Asian detective, Indians actually finding Olive Oyl preferable to their own squaws (why???), and Betty Boop’s panties.