# Were Justice Ginsburg's statements a clear indication of her opposition to Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 6, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280 "2017-06-06T16:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/1 "2017-06-06T16:50:32Z")
Statements in question, from a public media interview: About Trump possibly being elected: “I don’t want to think about that possibility, but if it should be, then everything is up for grabs.” "I can’t imagine what this place would be — I can’t imagine what the country would be — with Donald Trump as our president. For the country, it could be four years. For the court, it could be — I don’t even want to contemplate that. “At first I thought it was funny,” she said of Trump’s early candidacy. "To think that there’s a possibility that he could be president …. The reason for the poll - in another thread iiiiandyiii stated that he thinks these statements were just “very vague sarcasm” and not in opposition of Trump. Just wanted to gauge how many people agree with that on SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/2 "2017-06-06T17:00:32Z")
They weren’t a “clear indication” of anything, vague and indirect as the statements were. IMO they implied negative feelings towards Trump, but implied negative feelings are neither opposition nor endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/3 "2017-06-06T17:22:41Z")
Yes, obviously. But that doesn’t mean she needs to recuse herself. You’ve got a long row to hoe to get there from here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/4 "2017-06-06T17:31:45Z")
For those who want to know the purpose of this thread, it is an extension of [a previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827898) about Ginsberg recusing herself from cases involving Trump. If this was the case, then Justices _supporting_ his election would have to recuse themselves, too. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/5 "2017-06-06T17:38:17Z")
Of course she was opposed to him. And she’s a smart lady. But I repeat myself. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/6 "2017-06-06T18:06:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They weren’t a “clear indication” of anything, vague and indirect as the statements were. IMO they implied negative feelings towards Trump, but implied negative feelings are neither opposition nor endorsement. Imagine someone said the following: _“I can’t imagine what this neighborhood would be like with that black family moving in. Those black people could be next door to us for years. They might sends their kids to the same school - they might live here permane - I don’t even want to contemplate that.”_ Do you think that shows **opposition**? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/7 "2017-06-06T18:16:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Imagine someone said the following: > > _“I can’t imagine what this neighborhood would be like with that black family moving in. Those black people could be next door to us for years. They might sends their kids to the same school - they might live here permane - I don’t even want to contemplate that.”_ > > Do you think that shows **opposition**? Probably, but that’s entirely different from a the political scenario (i.e. “opposition or endorsement” of a politician) being discussed. In my understanding, judicial ethics rules are entirely different for racially bigoted statements like this one vice statements about politicians. EDIT: The words are also different. So yes, a different thing said about a different topic could be clear opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/8 "2017-06-06T18:24:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Imagine someone said the following: > > _“I can’t imagine what this neighborhood would be like with that black family moving in. Those black people could be next door to us for years. They might sends their kids to the same school - they might live here permane - I don’t even want to contemplate that.”_ > > Do you think that shows **opposition**? That scenario only makes sense if you actually believe she opposed Trump because of his race in general. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/9 "2017-06-06T18:25:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Probably, but that’s entirely different from a the political scenario (i.e. “opposition or endorsement” of a politician) being discussed. In my understanding, judicial ethics rules are entirely different for racially bigoted statements like this one vice statements about politicians. > > EDIT: The words are also different. So yes, a different thing said about a different topic could be clear opposition. What’s so wrong with just saying, “Yes, Ginsburg opposes Trump?” Is that somehow bad to concede? Other liberal folks have already said, yes she opposes him, and she ought to oppose him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/10 "2017-06-06T18:42:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What’s so wrong with just saying, “Yes, Ginsburg opposes Trump?” Is that somehow bad to concede? Other liberal folks have already said, yes she opposes him, and she ought to oppose him. I think she probably does oppose Trump in the sense that her statement implied that she disliked him and didn’t want him to win. But that’s not what the assertion, which was about judicial ethics, that started this conversation, said – it talked about clear opposition in the sense of publicly expressing opposition to a political candidate’s election, and I don’t think a sarcastic and vague remark qualifies, even if it implies negative feelings, as this one did. “I can’t imagine…” “I don’t even want to contemplate…” “To think there’s a possibility he could be president…” These are all incomplete statements. Sure, they imply something. But that’s not clear opposition. It’s not clear _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/11 "2017-06-06T19:12:31Z")
“I don’t even want to contemplate that” leaves some doubt in your mind about whether she was opposed to the election of Trump? Wow. Just, wow. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/12 "2017-06-06T19:25:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think she probably does oppose Trump in the sense that her statement implied that she disliked him and didn’t want him to win. But that’s not what the assertion, which was about judicial ethics, that started this conversation, said – it talked about clear opposition in the sense of publicly expressing opposition to a political candidate’s election, and I don’t think a sarcastic and vague remark qualifies, even if it implies negative feelings, as this one did. > > “I can’t imagine…” > “I don’t even want to contemplate…” > “To think there’s a possibility he could be president…” > > These are all incomplete statements. Sure, they imply something. But that’s not clear opposition. It’s not clear _anything_. Just admit it. Ginsburg opposes Trump. There is no reason to pretend she doesn’t. You are obviously scouring hard, very hard, to try to portray her words as somehow not opposing Trump. Red Sox fan: \* “If the Yankees win another World Series again…well, I don’t even want to contemplate that.” \* Hard to tell if the Red Sox fan opposes the Yankees winning, or not? Ambiguous? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/13 "2017-06-06T19:32:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Just admit it. Ginsburg opposes Trump. There is no reason to pretend she doesn’t. You are obviously scouring hard, very hard, to try to portray her words as somehow not opposing Trump. > > Red Sox fan: \* “If the Yankees win another World Series again…well, I don’t even want to contemplate that.” \* Hard to tell if the Red Sox fan opposes the Yankees winning, or not? Ambiguous? Well, gosh-now that you are here to answer for all of us, there’s no need to continue this thread, is there? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/14 "2017-06-06T19:43:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “I don’t even want to contemplate that” leaves some doubt in your mind about whether she was opposed to the election of Trump? > > Wow. Just, wow. No, not really, but that’s not the issue we’re discussing. It stems from a discussion about “opposition or endorsement” of a candidate in the context of judicial ethics. In that sense, I don’t believe these statements by Ginsburg qualify as “opposition or endorsement”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/15 "2017-06-06T19:44:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Just admit it. Ginsburg opposes Trump. There is no reason to pretend she doesn’t. You are obviously scouring hard, very hard, to try to portray her words as somehow not opposing Trump. > > Red Sox fan: \* “If the Yankees win another World Series again…well, I don’t even want to contemplate that.” \* Hard to tell if the Red Sox fan opposes the Yankees winning, or not? Ambiguous? It can sometimes be quite shocking when we discover that some other people really actually think differently than we do. Hopefully this can be a learning experience for you, and if so, I’m very happy to help. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/16 "2017-06-06T20:04:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, not really, but that’s not the issue we’re discussing. It stems from a discussion about “opposition or endorsement” of a candidate in the context of judicial ethics. In that sense, I don’t believe these statements by Ginsburg qualify as “opposition or endorsement”. No, it doesn’t. You might want this thread to be about that, but it isn’t. The two issues can be considered separately. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/17 "2017-06-06T20:06:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it doesn’t. You might want this thread to be about that, but it isn’t. The two issues can be considered separately. This thread started because the OP wanted to explore my particular disagreement (he even named me!) from a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/18 "2017-06-06T20:14:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This thread started because the OP wanted to explore my particular disagreement (he even named me!) from a different thread. I know. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/19 "2017-06-06T20:24:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I know. Okay. So I’ve accurately characterized the topic, you just disagree with me on characterizing what Ginsburg said, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280/20 "2017-06-06T20:31:45Z")
No, you accurately described the topic of the other thread. This one isn’t about recusal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-justice-ginsburgs-statements-a-clear-indication-of-her-opposition-to-trump/788280.md?page=2)