# We're Living IN A SOCIETY **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734 "2002-05-31T14:46:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/21 "2002-05-31T16:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought we were an anarcho-cynicalist commune. You’re fooling yourself . . . **jarbabe** , I think **Twisty** ’s point is still valid. If you ask politely, they’ll be more likely to act on their own next time. We’re living in a society–that means you need to help take responsibility for teaching others. Being upset about it accomplishes approximately dick. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/22 "2002-05-31T16:46:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Accenture briefcase Actually, I doubt that anyone who deliberately chooses to work at the least ethical company in the entire nation is really a part of our society–unless one counts leeches as “part.” ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/23 "2002-05-31T16:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > > **jarbabe** , I think **Twisty** ’s point is still valid. If you ask politely, they’ll be more likely to act on their own next time. We’re living in a society–that means you need to help take responsibility for teaching others. Being upset about it accomplishes approximately dick. Well, I guess that’s MY point. When did it happen that people needed to be TOLD that “if someone is in pain and on crutches you should let them sit down” Isn’t this just common sense and human kindness for chrissake? Like I said, if I was REALLY in agony, I would have asked…I’m not trying to “accomplish” anything by ranting about it…I’m just shocked that it happened. j ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/24 "2002-05-31T17:01:19Z")
Technically, Accenture is not a part of Arthur Anderson. They split off, in large part, because of a serious internal culture clash. Now, I don’t much care for Accenture, but they’re no worse than most consulting firms. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/25 "2002-05-31T17:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > When did it happen that people needed to be TOLD that “if someone is in pain and on crutches you should let them sit down” Isn’t this just common sense and human kindness for chrissake? Nope. It’s pretty much been since always, near as I can tell. TO the best of my knowledge, people have always been assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/26 "2002-05-31T17:10:14Z")
I am rapidly loosing my faith in humanity. A couple of weeks ago I mailed a letter I wanted to make sure got to the post office immediately so I went to a box on International. As I was going, there was an old lady standing in a cross walk, waiting to cross the street. I stopped for her, but other cars began honking and actually driving around my car. The woman waved me on. On the way back (approx 5 mins) she was still standing in the same spot. I said to myself fuck this shit. I waited for a break on the other side than angled my car so that I blocked the street and the lady could cross. Rude peole piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/27 "2002-05-31T20:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Technically, Accenture is not a part of Arthur Anderson. They split off, in large part, because of a serious internal culture clash. True: they weren’t even ethical enough to belong to AA and as the threats mounted against AC, AA demanded that they change the name. I’m afraid that after hearing 20 years of first-hand reports about (what is now called) Accenture, I’m willing to rate them considerably lower than mere pond scum such as E&Y, PW, or similar outfits. (In fact, in 20 years, they are the only outfit of whom I have never heard of a project that they did not mismanage.) ---
**Author:** ![Skydive101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@Skydive101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skydive101)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/28 "2002-06-01T08:10:12Z")
Jar honey, move to Wichita, we get out of our seats just because you’re a lady, crippled or no. Sorry bout yer luck. \*oh Gawd, now I’ve got the accent goin ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/29 "2002-06-01T10:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > these people didn’t HAVE to give me their seat, it’s not the LAW Maybe it is different there, but here in San Francisco I’m pretty sure it is the law. I’ll have to double check next time I’m on the bus or streetcar to be sure but I believe that the sign has little teeny writing refering to the city code or statute… Actually I just found this on the Muni website:“Give up front seats for seniors and persons with disabilities. Federal law mandates that the front seats of the bus be given up for seniors and persons with disabilities. Please do not sit in those seats if a senior or person with a disability needs a seat.” > **[Muni](https://www.sfmta.com/muni-transit)** > > San Francisco's network of fuel-efficient Muni buses, light rail Metro trains, historic streetcars and iconic cable cars covers all corners of the city. Affordable, safe, convenient and environmentally friendly, choose Muni for your commutes... So perhaps your situation doesn’t count as a disability technically, but it apparently **is** the law. In the future maybe you can ask the driver for assistance in securing a seat as you get on? Twiddle ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/30 "2002-06-01T13:54:47Z")
A disability is anything - temporary or permanent – which impairs ones, well, abilities. Being on crutches with a leg in an immobilizer definitely counts. It’s been my experience, here in the city where we’re all supposed so very, very emotionally aware now, that being both obviously pregnant **and** on crutches holds absolutely no weight in terms of making rude people act less rude. When I sprained my ankle a couple of months ago, there were times when people in my own apartment building couldn’t be bothered to even hold a door for me, let alone actually give up something. Rude people suck. They don’t know from society. They don’t know from anything beyond the tips of their own noses. ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/31 "2002-06-01T14:39:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stuffy \* > \*\*I am rapidly loosing my faith in humanity. > > A couple of weeks ago I mailed a letter I wanted to make sure got to the post office immediately so I went to a box on International. As I was going, there was an old lady standing in a cross walk, waiting to cross the street. I stopped for her, but other cars began honking and actually driving around my car. The woman waved me on. On the way back (approx 5 mins) she was still standing in the same spot. I said to myself fuck this shit. I waited for a break on the other side than angled my car so that I blocked the street and the lady could cross. Rude peole piss me off. \*\* You’re now added to my list of heroes 🙂 That kind of thing drives me crazy - I have used similar tactics to try to help people - seems like the assholes outnumber generally nice people by 10 to 1 - which is why I make a point of inconveniencing assholes as I stop in traffic & let the lady with a young child cross the street. I have a bumper stick that says “Practice Random Kindness & Senseless Acts of Beauty” - I am hoping someone besides myself may be inspired by the concept & actually do just that. PS - **Eve** I \* love\* the way your mind works 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/32 "2002-06-01T14:47:18Z")
_bumper sticker_ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/33 "2002-06-01T19:09:44Z")
Society? Bleh-- Animals are more compassionate/considerate in the wild. I’d intended to start a little pit-thread over a pitiful display of callow youth that I witnessed last night, but since it seems to be on topic here, here’s where it’s going. Last night, I was riding the peasant-wagon home, and as the bus was filling up, I observed two young women, actually \*\*ask an old man _with a cane_ to give up his seat, and take one further back, (up two steps, mind you,) “so we can sit together.” \*\* :mad: The old fella, having had somewhere between sixty and seventy years of practice at civilized behaviour, was polite enough to do as he was asked without complaint, although it was obvious he was having difficulty getting up the steps. If those girls were even peripherally aware of the half-dozen folks that were giving them “evil-eye” and shaking their heads, they didn’t let on. If there was any justice, they would remember their offense with shame and horror thirty or forty years from now – but I have no doubt that those self-centered little morons forgot about that man the minute they sat down and resumed their brainless chatter - certainly long before _he_ managed to make his way to a seat. I hope they get chlamydia and osteo-arthritis simultaneously, and a pox on all people who reflect so poorly on the condition of youth. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/34 "2002-06-02T18:22:02Z")
When there are fuckers out there who hit-and-run and kill pedestrians or other motor vehicle drivers, what do you expect? :mad: I’d be tempted to sit on the kid’s or suit’s lap and see what happens. Or “accidentally” lean my crutch on top of someone’s foot. With all of my weight. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/35 "2002-06-02T18:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > ## Originally posted by jlzania Case in point: A good friend of mine got a flat on a freeway in Austin at 10 am. She was epically pregnant at the time-think Shamu. Austin is/was a city known for its neighborliness. No on stopped to help her. > > For me, at least, in situations like that…I don’t stop to help because I fear for my own safety. I have passed people broken down before, and known that I had a jack, two gallons of water, and 20-foot-long jumper cables in my car but I didn’t stop because God only knows whether they’re actually broken down or not. This semester my Sociology Prof told us about a theory he had developed, but his peers still didn’t want to accept. It’s that alienation (the incapacity for effective action) is because institutionalized—it’s the norm. It’s a very disturbing thought, but I think he is absolutely correct. People don’t stop and help others anymore because they are scared of being injured, mugged, sued, or killed. There are cases where people didn’t even bother calling 911 to help somebody–even though they could have done it annonymously…and the list goes on and on. It’s a sad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Com2Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Com2Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Com2Kid)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/36 "2002-06-02T19:28:24Z")
A few days ago as I was riding my bike to the campus (yes I ride my bike, only 1.5mi, and it gives me an excuse to eat whatever desert I damn well feel like and tell others to buzz off it they don’t like it. ;D ) and an old man was carrying some insulation from out of his house in large brown garbage can. Some of the insulation fell out as the man was stepping onto a pickup truck. So I stopped, put down the kickstand, got off my bike, reached down, picked up the insulation, and handed it to the man with the words “Here, you dropped this Sir.” All while he looked on seemingly surprised that somebody had actualy stopped to help an old man pick something up. It isn’t that hard to help others out, and while yes indeed it is not the law that we have too; well heck, there are somethings that rise above the law, and helping out other people is one of them. You do not need any payback, any reward, any kudos points, hell took me the longest time to realize that the reason for doing good deeds is NOT for some great return in the end, it is NOT for some large thanks at the end of the day by everybody you helped; but hell, the reason for doing good deeds is beause _they should be done._ I remember when an elderly couple got onto the Bus, the man let his wife sit down in the one remaining seat on the Bus; I got up from my seat next to his wife and offered it to him. It is what is proper. I _could not_ act any other way, it is just incomprehensable to me. While I understand /WHY/ people act negativly, I do not understand /HOW/ it is that they manage to actualy. . . . take those actions. Oh, and yuppies on cell phones suck; bleh. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/37 "2002-06-03T06:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > **…alienation (the incapacity for effective action) is because institutionalized—it’s the norm.** This is exactly why each of us can have an effect on this phenomenon - every time we publicly act in such a way to show that it IS the norm to help others, we do our part to reverse that trend. Here in New Mexico, every time I’ve had car problems and been stuck on any road, someone has stopped eventually. If Mr. Legend was with me, sometimes it would take a long time before anyone stopped, but if I was alone or, especially, with the children, someone usually stopped within minutes. The funny thing is that once one person stopped, others would frequently stop too, just to see if they could help out. I try to do the same unless the situation looks especially dangerous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/38 "2002-06-03T11:42:09Z")
_“In situations like that? At 10 AM in broad daylght a pregnant woman is going to mug and rape you?”_ How do I know who’s in or behind her car? I don’t. And unfortunately, she’s unlikely to have a placard reading “I AM ACTUALLY A SHILL FOR A CARJACKER” leaning on her car. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/39 "2002-06-03T12:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I remember when an elderly couple got onto the Bus, the man let his wife sit down in the one remaining seat on the Bus; > > I got up from my seat next to his wife and offered it to him. I have little springs in my knees that are pretty much automatically triggered by elderly, crutch-using, pregnant, encumbered, or otherwise nonstandworthy persons in crowded transit. If I am exhausted and cranky, and a frail old lady or gentleman gets on, I grumble and moan (inwardly) and get up anyway. I don’t see how it can be any other way. I also hold doors for people. What am I supposed to do, let it slam in their face? (I do not hold the metro doors, which is illegal and could cause the door to become jammed and the entire line to be slowed down.) I also stop when I see people staring at or arguing over maps, and offer assistance in both official languages, and I find it scares the living shit out of some people who are obviously not used to helpfulness in public places. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734/40 "2002-06-03T12:43:21Z")
I must have been brought up right… you hold the door for people, you give up your seat to women, chiildren, the elderly, and anyone who needs it more than you, and if you see someone with a breakdown on the side of the road you stop and help. Once upon a time, my car broke down in the middle of nowhere, in weather that would freeze the balls of a brass monkey before the days when everyone had a cellphone. An old farmer pulled up in his truck, gave me a lift to his farmhouse, made coffee and let me use his phone to call a towtruck and my family. He went one step further and gave me a ride home with my home being around 40 miles from his place… he flat out refused to accept anything for the trip. I should also point out that he wasn’t even on his way home when he stopped, perhaps he was just cruising the backroads looking for stranded motorists… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-living-in-a-society/111734.md?page=3)