# "We're Losing the Last Shreds of Legal Rights to Protect Ourselves from Oligarchy" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873 "2014-05-07T05:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/21 "2014-05-07T15:52:46Z")
This is why the U.S. can never declare war on Canada. White Anglo Americans will end up getting profiled in the effort to root out Canadian terrorists and saboteurs and they won’t stand for it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/22 "2014-05-07T15:52:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, like so many on the Left love to say, the Constitution is just a “slaveholders’ document” that’s long outdated itself. > > Be careful what you wish for, I guess. We certainly didn’t wish for made-up comments to be ascribed to us. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/23 "2014-05-07T16:29:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Standing is a requirement for Article III jurisdiction. How do you propose this gets changed? I agree that standing is a relevant issue in this case. Hedges should have found some relative of a detainee to file the lawsuit. But I do have to sympathize with what Hedges was saying about a past lawsuit. According to him (admittedly a biased source) he was part of a group of people who filed a suit against the government over a secret NSA surveillance program. He says the case was dismissed for the same grounds of not being able to show standing. And he makes what appears to be a valid point - one of the issues they were suing over was the existence of secret lists of subjects being investigated. So the fact that an individual couldn’t know if the NSA was monitoring him was both the reason the government was being sued and the reason the court dismissed the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/24 "2014-05-07T19:49:23Z")
People have been warning of monarchies/oligarchies/fascism/communism/despotism since the establishment of the US. And here we are living in the most free and liberal society human history has ever known. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/25 "2014-05-07T20:24:35Z")
> [@crono35](#): > > Just because something is legal in the eyes of the government doesn’t necessarily mean it will be used as an everyday tool against the general population. > > I think you’ll be hard pressed to find any government which, at some point, never had to make compromises in the name of national security. … IMO the danger is not that it will be used against the general population, but that it will be used against “trouble makers” for reasons other than them being a genuine threat to society. And so long as that’s how it’s used, there won’t be a critical mass to rise up in opposition to it. But it would still be a bad thing. And also IMO is that while the law is perhaps a compromise in the name of national security, it is a shield for those who use it for other reasons but _claim_ it’s being used for mational security. Shit, they may even believe it! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/26 "2014-05-08T01:50:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, just being an atheist minding your own business can get you called “militant”. Uh, yeah, but that’s the “other side” calling the atheists “militant.” This is a certain side _calling themselves_ that. Thus why I thought it was especially significant, and indicative of a certain mindset and type of plan. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/27 "2014-05-08T07:25:47Z")
I agree with him about the problem: I disagree with the suggested solution. I’d go with a militant mass movement to reform districting, political funding and lobbying, rules of order, voting eligibility and voting methods. Not perfect, but better than just “overthrow corporate tyranny”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/28 "2014-05-08T07:35:43Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I agree with him about the problem: I disagree with the suggested solution. I’d go with a militant mass movement to reform districting, political funding and lobbying, rules of order, voting eligibility and voting methods. > > Not perfect, but better than just “overthrow corporate tyranny”. I feel the whole “corporate tyranny” issue is a false lead. Hedges obviously has major objections to capitalism. And while I don’t object to capitalism like he apparently does, I acknowledge there are serious problems regarding corporate power in America. But this isn’t one of them. It’s not major corporations pushing for secret surveillance programs and detentions. Hedges apparently just assumes his personal bogeyman must be behind everything he opposes. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873/29 "2014-05-08T13:15:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … > But this isn’t one of them. It’s not major corporations pushing for secret surveillance programs and detentions. Hedges apparently just assumes his personal bogeyman must be behind everything he opposes. Our corporate overlords are playing a long game. The government surveillance is only the prelude. The data will be later turned over to the private sector. Then they will grow their targeted marketing campaigns by learning just exactly who is vulnerable to what kind of approach. And then, there’s sales based on blackmail! :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-last-shreds-of-legal-rights-to-protect-ourselves-from-oligarchy/687873.md?page=1)