# We're Losing the War on Ignorance, Big Time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694 "2002-12-24T07:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/1 "2002-12-24T07:21:01Z")
Okay, we all know that no one who works for a major scientific organization would ever take Buzz Aldrin’s punching bag seriously, right? And we would be so terribly, terribly, [wrong](http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/12/22/moon.madness.ap/index.html). > [@](#): > > **Indeed, the National Science Foundation’s Pollak says two of her colleagues, after watching the Fox special, thought it was possible that NASA faked the moon landings. “These are people who work at NSF,” she stresses.** :smack: You know, guys, if the stupids are breeding faster than we are, we’re going to have a real problem on our hands shortly. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/2 "2002-12-24T13:42:27Z")
I thought this was a funny quote: > [@](#): > > “I don’t know what real achievements they’ve done because when do you trust a liar?” Rene says. “I know we have a shuttle running right around above our heads, but that’s only 175 miles up. It’s under the shield. You cannot go through the shield and live.” > > He’s talking, of course, about the radiation shield. Of _course_ he’s talking about the radiation shield! What else would he be talking about? At least our own **Bad Astronomer** is out there fighting the fight. Isn’t it cool to see him quoted on [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) and go “Hey! I know that guy!” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/3 "2002-12-24T13:45:29Z")
We should keep stupidity in captivity and on display. That way, when children are visiting the stupidity center the teacher can say, “don’t get to close children, this one throws out bad ideas, making a mess of whatever it hits”. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/4 "2002-12-24T13:48:40Z")
The **Bad Astronomer** told CNN > [@](#): > > “There’s a lot of antiscientific thinking and if this stuff is allowed to continue, it’s going to spell doom for our country.” Amen to that brother! If we want to see the United States continue to be a world leader, we’d better be educating our kids in the sciences, and more importantly - how to think critically. Otherwise, our time has come and gone. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/5 "2002-12-24T14:14:08Z")
> [@](#): > > A much bigger and younger man was hounding the 72-year-old astronaut in Beverly Hills, Calif., calling him “a coward and a liar and a thief” and trying to get him to swear on a Bible, on camera, that he walked on the moon. Aldrin, a Korean War combat pilot, responded with a fist in the chops. Now _ **THAT’S** _ Fighting Ignorance! Go Buzz! ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/6 "2002-12-24T14:47:35Z")
GOD I hate Fox and that show. The other day at my other Job a young school kid interupted a conversation I was having with someone defending communism. I simply asked that If the West was so weak why was it able to get a man on the moon even after a poor start with the Space Race. Snot nose laughs and says, “Everyone knows that was faked!” I asked him where he gets that information to which he replied “There was a documentary on it.” I nearly choked on my sandwich A DOCUMENTARY?!?!!? A **FUCKING DOCUMENTARY?!?!?!** He says any rockets that go into orbit would explode I merely asked him why I was spending money on a Sattelite receiver if that was the case. Blank stare… I waved my hand in front of his eyes as he tried to understand what I asked him… I walked away in disgust and merely pointed him towards BAD [Astronomy.com](http://Astronomy.com) I doubt it will convince him… stupidity is quite terminal at times Lord save me from Loonies ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/7 "2002-12-24T15:34:36Z")
Wow - sure is an uphill fight, battling ignorance. When a piece of imbecilic Fox tripe passes for a documentary, you know you’ve got problems. I thought only a handful of misguided nutjobs believed the moon landing was faked. Looks like there are a lot more misguided nutjobs than I anticipated, and at least one in the NSF. Gah. I am ashamed of my species. Kn(Rock on, Buzz!)ckers ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/8 "2002-12-24T16:20:06Z")
I was starting to worry, I hadn’t seen this month’s moon hoax thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/9 "2002-12-24T16:36:12Z")
Was it clear from the quote that the NSF employee in question was a scientist? It’s not quite so disturbing if the NSF accountant believes this crap, or the guy who cleans the building… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/10 "2002-12-24T16:47:11Z")
“Indeed, the National Science Foundation’s Pollak says two of her colleagues, after watching the Fox special, thought it was possible that NASA faked the moon landings.” It _is_ possible they faked the landings, this is the proper “scientific” perspective. It’s merely improbable that it could have been this successfully pulled off and the Fox special didn’t provide any reason to think it was fake. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/11 "2002-12-24T17:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*It _is_ possible they faked the landings, this is the proper “scientific” perspective. It’s merely improbable that it could have been this successfully pulled off and the Fox special didn’t provide any reason to think it was fake. \*\* While you are of course correct, it shows why scientists should not perhaps speak to the general public without choosing their words better. Saying it is “possible”, meaning that it is highly unlikley and that no evidence supports it - as opposed to “likely”, is a fine distinction lost on the rabble. ---
**Author:** ![lothos2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@lothos2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lothos2002)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/12 "2002-12-24T17:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*While you are of course correct, it shows why scientists should not perhaps speak to the general public without choosing their words better. Saying it is “possible”, meaning that it is highly unlikley and that no evidence supports it - as opposed to “likely”, is a fine distinction lost on the rabble. \*\* Although it is true that the “rabble” should have **Anthracite** , but it does not make it incorrect on the part of the scientist to have stated the truth. I did not see the Fox programme, but taking the statement at face value, I think that the statement “it is possible” is correct, and the fact people took it out of context speaks ill not of the scientist, but of the people who made the programme. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/13 "2002-12-24T17:21:54Z")
Bang on **Anthracite** or at least the reporters, charged with relating scientific info to us, should know and explain the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/14 "2002-12-24T17:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I was starting to worry, I hadn’t seen this month’s moon hoax thread. > > 😃 \*\* The moon is a hoax?!? ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/15 "2002-12-24T17:30:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*The moon is a hoax?!? \*\* No, but it is made of [cheese!](http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020401.html) ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/16 "2002-12-24T17:56:36Z")
IIRC Washington (meaning the Government) was > [@](#): > > first in war, first in peace, and last in the American League. No mention of science or scientific stuff. 😉 There are a certain number of people who don’t trust the government, no matter what. In addition, what the government did (I don’t recall which agency, but I think Air Force) with regard to Roswell/Area 51 UFO debacle kind of backs up this attitude. Ofbfuscate, deny, cover up and pretty soon nobody believes you. I did not see the Fox news ‘special’ as I rarely watch Fox (only NFL with the sound off) so I don’t know what was said, but I’d say the government should shut up while they’re ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/17 "2002-12-24T18:41:26Z")
I take it none of you have ever gone to a ‘psychic fair’. You think believing the Apollo program was fake is nuts? Wait until you see a 30 year old businesswoman pass her hand over a chunk of quartz and exclaim, “You can just FEEL the energy emanating from it!” Remember pyramid power? People were spending thousands of dollars to put steel pyramid frames over their beds to improve their health. Polls consistently show that significant numbers of westerners believe in spirits, ESP, UFOs, Bigfoot (despite being an admitted hoax), crop circles (despite being an admitted hoax) and the Loch Ness Monster (despite being an admitted hoax). Discussions of science on the internet are often interrupted by people who can’t tell the difference between real science and television (“I think you can travel faster than light. On Star Trek, they just warp space”). The fight against ignorance is an uphill struggle, folks. And it’s a steep slope. Better break out the pitons and snap hooks. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/18 "2002-12-24T18:48:54Z")
> [@](#): > > “There’s a lot of antiscientific thinking and if this stuff is allowed to continue, it’s going to spell doom for our country.” Yes, but the newsmedia that sells most in this country, usually, is stuff with a sensationalist/“this could be true … who knows?” bend to it. “documentaries” and such sell more than “Here’s the proof that the moon landings were real”. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/19 "2002-12-24T18:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lothos2002 \* > \*\*Although it is true that the “rabble” should have **Anthracite** , but it does not make it incorrect on the part of the scientist to have stated the truth. I did not see the Fox programme, but taking the statement at face value, I think that the statement “it is possible” is correct, and the fact people took it out of context speaks ill not of the scientist, but of the people who made the programme. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > **While you are of course correct,** it shows why scientists should not perhaps speak to the general public without choosing their words better. Saying it is “possible”, meaning that it is highly unlikley and that no evidence supports it - as opposed to “likely”, is a fine distinction lost on the rabble. I didn’t say it was incorrect at all. My post is right there up above. I said that they should perhaps “(choose) their words better”. Was what I said that different from what you are saying that you needed to even dispute it with me? 😕 When you speak to the general public on scientific matters, it is your responsibility to make sure that your message is clear and not misinterpreted. As a scientist, you have to remember that you are speaking to people who most likely have a VCR flashing “12:00”, a book on feng shui, or have at least one first or second-cousin who has been butt-probed by aliens. I didn’t come down on the scientist quoted. I only said that the person in question should have chosen their words better. ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/20 "2002-12-25T00:08:38Z")
So, the Moon Hoax “documentary” on Fox has all its flaws yet was still aired and convinced a more than small amount of people to that garbage; what credibility do you think is there in a “documentary” on RODS that Fox has continally stalled the airing of? BTW, the Art Bell Show is behind only Rush in ratings. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694.md?page=2)