# We're Losing the War on Ignorance, Big Time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694 "2002-12-24T07:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/21 "2002-12-25T00:27:14Z")
**Kwyjibo** – nice to see a page at [nasa.gov](http://nasa.gov) referring back to the Straight Dope… ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/22 "2002-12-25T00:51:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frankd6 \* > \*\*Was it clear from the quote that the NSF employee in question was a scientist? It’s not quite so disturbing if the NSF accountant believes this crap, or the guy who cleans the building… \*\* She did refer to them as “colleagues.” While I have the highest respect for the members of the janitorial profession who work in our building, I’d call them “co-workers” or perhaps “fellow employees.” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/23 "2002-12-25T00:55:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*When you speak to the general public on scientific matters, it is your responsibility to make sure that your message is clear and not misinterpreted. \*\* It may be your responsibility in this case to “make sure your message is clear” but insuring that your message is properly interpreted is definitely NOT your responsibility. Interpretation of basic science will only improve when our society finally chooses to put reason above superstitious and religious bunk, and then proceeds to adequately fund public education and insist on results. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/24 "2002-12-25T00:55:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frankd6 \* > \*\*Was it clear from the quote that the NSF employee in question was a scientist? It’s not quite so disturbing if the NSF accountant believes this crap, or the guy who cleans the building… \*\* Well, I doubt that a scientist who works for the NSF would refer to an accountant or a janitor as a “colleague.” And while it certainly is _conceivable_ that the US _might_ have faked a lunar landing, the odds of that being true are akin to my suddenly sprouting enormous teats as I type this. (i.e. so far away from an actuality as to not be considered.) I also seriously doubt that NASA producing a book on the landings is going to do anything to change these wingnuts minds, after all, it would involve them having to _read_ instead of being spoonfed from the TV. ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/25 "2002-12-25T01:12:03Z")
Relative to their documentary, I submit to you all the show “Joe Millionaire,” about to debut/which has debuted on Fox. I don’t know what to loathe more: Fox for airing the dreck that it does, or the people that let it cater to them. Through it all, however, are the following beliefs: 1. if you don’t answer to something, it must have struck a nerve–anything can be engaged rationally (although dismissal of the asinine apparently isn’t rational) 2. big, shady organizations are not to be trusted (ironically, Fox is such an institution, though I hesitate to use that term) 3. anyone can have credible input on anything–this goes along with specialists in one field thinking their experience or input carries over into another: “I am a lawyer, so my medical opinion is relevant.” 4. if it’s on TV, it must have credibility (lots of people have this complaint, but too many fail to correct themselves on it) Once I sat with my friend at dinner who was talking in earnest about something with a professor we sometimes dine with. As I had arrived late and the subject didn’t hold much interest for me, I didn’t contribute and instead only listened. I heard the professor comment, “…apart from popular reasoning, which is pretty incoherent.” Yeah, yeah it is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bad\_Astronomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@The\_Bad\_Astronomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bad_Astronomer)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/26 "2002-12-25T04:06:07Z")
Just a quick note: as long as those Moon Hoax twinkies continue to open their mouths and spout nonsense, lies, and smear the reputation of the 250,000+ people who put twelve men on the Moon, I will continue to fight them. This kind of crap MUST stop. I know it never will, but the fight itself is enough to make the issues known to people, and hopefully will marginalize such garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/27 "2002-12-25T04:17:37Z")
**Bad Astronomer** , you’re the Straight Dope’s own superhero. (I just watched _Spiderman_, leave me alone.) We applaud you! ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/28 "2002-12-25T04:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Bad Astronomer \* > \*\*This kind of crap MUST stop. I know it never will, but the fight itself is enough to make the issues known to people, and hopefully will marginalize such garbage. \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Kyla_ > **Bad Astronomer, you’re the Straight Dope’s own superhero. (I just watched Spiderman, leave me alone.) We applaud you!** “…and they say that a hero will save us/I’m not gonna stand here and wait…” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/29 "2002-12-25T04:22:51Z")
This was my favorite quote in the story: > [@](#): > > “It became, as things like this do, a media circus. And by circus, I mean more like carnival,” Plait says, toot-toot-tootling like a calliope. Since Phil has stopped by, would you mind toot-toot-tootling for us? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/30 "2002-12-25T04:39:31Z")
Say, here’s a thought. At one time one of the satellite services was carrying “The NASA Channel” which showed the launches of the shuttles and other educational programming. Does anybody know if that’s still around, and how hard it would be to get the various cable companies to start carrying it? (Wonder if we couldn’t get the FCC to do some of the muscling for us? Point out that it would be educational [“Think of the children!”], and thus would serve a public need.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/31 "2002-12-25T04:44:07Z")
I have DISH Network and they carry the NASA channel. Side note: whenever you encounter these nutjobs, ask them if they have one of those 300mpg carberators in their cars. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/32 "2002-12-25T04:47:11Z")
**Tuckerfan** , NASA TV shows in our planetarium lobby every day! Satellite dish info and schedule: [http://www.nasa.gov/ntv/breaking.html](http://www.nasa.gov/ntv/breaking.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/33 "2002-12-25T05:02:27Z")
So, the channel’s still going? _ **GREAT!** _ Now all we need to do is to see if we can’t get the cable companies to pick it up! ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/34 "2002-12-25T05:40:43Z")
**Tuckerfan** and **Podkayne** : I did recognize the use of the term “colleague” in the cited passage, and I am aware of the the connotations of that particular word. However. Note that the word “colleague” does not appear in the direct quote. This suggests that the NSF employee quoted did not actually use the word “colleague”. As an attorney with both training and experience in journalism, I have personal knowledge of the demand of journalistic ethics. As a guy who has watched the FOX network since its inception, I’m familiar with FOX’s willingness to turn cartwheels in the abundant gray areas we find in the media ethics arena. My point? Even FOX doesn’t claim the NSF employee used the word “colleague.” Why should we assume that “colleague” means “fellow scientist” in this instance; given the fact that: a) FOX is willing to play fast and loose with the truth, especially in infotainment of this nature; and b) a valid definition of the word “colleague” could be “each and every human being that I work with.” I am only offering this argument to suggest that perhaps things aren’t as bad as we suppose. The goons at FOX could just be using journalistic license to make thing appear worse than they truly are. Of course, the effect of their actions is to recruit more folks to the cause of ignernce. Further, I would suggest that anyone who believes this tripe isn’t worthy of the title of “scientist.” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/35 "2002-12-25T05:48:28Z")
Uh, **Frank** , the link’s to a CNN story, and no where does that story state that it’s quoting Fox in regards to the NSF. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/36 "2002-12-25T06:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*So, the channel’s still going? _ **GREAT!** _ Now all we need to do is to see if we can’t get the cable companies to pick it up! \*\* I get it on my non premium, non digital, every day “Comedy Central and ESPNClassic” level cable from Time Warner. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/37 "2002-12-25T07:07:30Z")
The only problem with the NASA channel is that it’s programmed terribly. They should farm it out to a private cable company and let them produce it while maintaining editorial control. They could offer programs of breaking news, live telemetry feeds from space probes as scrolling captions like on CNN… Have shows focusing on each planet and going through the known science, while showing data from the various missions. It would be nice for people to get to go back and look at the launches of things like the Cassini Mission, once the thing gets to Saturn. Have specials where you re-broadcast original Apollo missions. It’d be a great network. I’d watch it. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/38 "2002-12-25T08:23:46Z")
I saw that special. I would never think the moon landing was a hoax. The one thing I didn’t understand on the FOX special was the pictures they presented of the surface of the moon. If the pictures were revealed accurately on FOX that is. It had object overlapping the “cross-hairs” (right term?) that showed up on all of the pictures. I’m pretty sure that was what they were claiming with the pictures shown. I don’t see how this would ADD to the theory that it was all a fake… I mean, if the “cross-hairs” were added later, why wouldn’t they still overlap? What are possible explanations? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/39 "2002-12-25T09:16:11Z")
I don’t think were LOSING the war on ignorance per se, just that a lot of people are becoming aware of just HOW ignorant the general public really are. I’m sure that earlier generations were FAR more ignorant that we were but the only things that are preserved from them tend to be from the less-than-ignorant crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694/40 "2002-12-25T11:18:09Z")
Well, it’s probably an exercise in futility, but I have started an internet petition to see if we can’t get the changes **Sam** suggested done to the NASA Channel. I’ll post the link when it gets e-mailed to me in a couple of days. Sad to say, it’ll be the **only** petition in the “Space” category. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-losing-the-war-on-ignorance-big-time/144694.md?page=3)