# Were medals of valor issued for Confederate troops? Any MOH winners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412 "2015-04-24T03:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/21 "2015-04-24T12:39:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > An estimated 620,000 men died in the US Civil War. The largest number of casualties of any war fought by the US. This was not a random group of traitors. There was gallantry and heroism on both sides. It was a horrific self inflicted wound that took decades to recover from. > [Civil War Casualties | American Battlefield Trust](http://www.civilwar.org/education/civil-war-casualties.html) Presumably the people of the antebellum period were well aware of the number of casualties, given that these were members of their families, or from their towns or people they worked with. Or people they saw die next to them on the battlefield. I suspect that they would not be as willing as you are to recognize heroism on the other side, given that you’re insulated by 150 years distance. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/22 "2015-04-24T12:47:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The war was fought over a fundamental issue of states rights. Specifically the right to withdraw from a union each of the original colonies had voluntarily joined. The issue still comes up in other countries today. Scotland just had a referendum to withdraw from the UK. Quebec similarly had referendums to withdraw from Canada. The Quebec sovereignty movement is still quite active… Considering that the Confederates claimed the reason they seceded was that states were _asserting_ their own rights (i.e., to free slaves in their territory) and the Federal government was allowing this, you are mistaken (it’s a common mistake, of course). The Confederates seceded because they were _against_ states rights and that the Federal government should have overruled state laws on slavery. This isn’t speculation – South Carolina out-and-out said that this was the reason the left, and the plurality of Confederate states said reason they left was due to slavery. Are you saying the South was lying when they stated their reasons? In any case, war medals are given to your own troops. I can’t think of any example of anyone giving medals to someone who fought against you, valorously or not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/23 "2015-04-24T13:44:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Confederacy would have issued medals. Not the US gov. Two different entities with separate Presidents and governing bodies. Okay, I misunderstood your question. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/24 "2015-04-24T13:49:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > True. But on the other hand they named[Army posts after rebel generals](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/opinion/sunday/misplaced-honor.html?_r=0). > > And at least two missile submarines.[USS Robert E Lee (SSBN 601)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Robert_E._Lee_%28SSBN-601%29) > And [USS Stonewall Jackson (SSBN 632).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stonewall_Jackson_(SSBN-634)) > > And [three surface ships](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Buchanan) after a [Confederate Admiral.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Buchanan). > > So its not as stupid as it sounds. As far as I’m concerned it’s wrong. I don’t see how it’s any different than naming an American ship for Erwin Rommel or Vo Nguyen Giap. I’ll acknowledge these men were successful generals who fought hard for their countries - but they were fighting against the United States and killing American soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/25 "2015-04-24T14:01:18Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > they were all American soldiers. > [@madmonk28](#): > > By that reasoning, so is John Walker Lindh, the American who joined the Taliban. He is an American and a soldier, therefore an American soldier. the southern solders were members of the military of the CSA. that doesn’t mean the Confederate States of Argentina. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/26 "2015-04-24T14:07:47Z")
Medals of Honer for the USA were first awarded in that war. i recall that: the criteria was quiet different then. some were given if you kept the USA flag from hitting the ground, some were given if you captured a Confederate flag in battle, some were given for noncombatant roles. there was a mix. some were taken back (unawarded). ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/27 "2015-04-24T14:11:50Z")
all military on both sides got the Civil War Campaign Medal in 1907. there was an army and a navy/marine medal. both sides got the same medal with blue and gray on the ribbon. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/28 "2015-04-24T14:11:58Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think that both officially and unofficially Southern troops were considered traitors. How would they be traitors since they were never officially considered a foreign power? but only a part of the US in the state of rebellion. Or to put it another way, choosing to exercise their 2nd amendment right to express their objection to the federal government. Seems all perfectly legal and constitutional and following proper protocols and channels. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/29 "2015-04-24T14:57:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > How would they be traitors since they were never officially considered a foreign power? but only a part of the US in the state of rebellion. Or to put it another way, choosing to exercise their 2nd amendment right to express their objection to the federal government. Seems all perfectly legal and constitutional and following proper protocols and channels. Attacking US military bases and killing US soldiers is “legal and constitutional” and “proper protocol”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/30 "2015-04-24T15:00:14Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the southern solders were members of the military of the CSA. > > that doesn’t mean the Confederate States of Argentina. It also doesn’t mean the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/31 "2015-04-24T15:05:21Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the southern solders were members of the military of the CSA. > > that doesn’t mean the Confederate States of Argentina. > [@madmonk28](#): > > It also doesn’t mean the United States of America. no it doesn’t. and i never claimed that it did. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/32 "2015-04-24T15:20:46Z")
The Civil War was not one group of Americans fighting a different group of Americans. It was Confederates fighting Americans. If you want to argue otherwise, why not say that everyone in North America is an American? Then you can give Santa Anna the Medal of Honor for capturing the Alamo in 1836 and give him a second one for defending America from foreign invasion in 1848. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/33 "2015-04-24T16:03:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Civil War was not one group of Americans fighting a different group of Americans. It was Confederates fighting Americans. > > If you want to argue otherwise, why not say that everyone in North America is an American? Then you can give Santa Anna the Medal of Honor for capturing the Alamo in 1836 and give him a second one for defending America from foreign invasion in 1848. No, the South was and is American, from 1607 (okay, maybe they were British then, but those people became Americans) to the present. That was the whole point of the Civil War – a divided nation cannot stand. I mean, I understand the part about how you don’t give medals to traitors, and the CSA was full of traitors. But they were still Americans, even though they had their own country for a while. Sort of like Taiwan is still Chinese. They just split off from the rest of China for political reasons. Or South (and North) Korea is still Korean. Et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/34 "2015-04-24T16:11:16Z")
in the constitution of the CSA they named themselves the Confederate States of America. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/35 "2015-04-24T16:35:52Z")
The Confederates believed they were a new country. They did everything in their power to make it official in the eyes of their contemporaries, both internal and external. Then they lost. So the winners got to pretend that no real country ever existed, and retroactively provided continuity. If the Confederacy had won, however, the exact same set of actions would have been considered the formation of a new country from the very beginning in February 1861. This is history as Schrodinger’s Cat. The CSA was a country and yet it wasn’t. Its status from 1861 to 1865 was indeterminate. Officially and legally, the South has always been part of the U.S. and its inhabitants citizens of the United States. (Well, except for [Floridian-Americans](http://www.scribd.com/doc/262792039/Fuck-This-Court), of course.) Except that it’s ridiculous to think of much of what happened in 1861-1865 that way. Both are true. Both are false. Fascinating. Unsolvable. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/36 "2015-04-24T17:11:03Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > in the constitution of the CSA they named themselves the Confederate States of America. **Moderator Note** The issue of whether Confederates were “Americans” is a bit of a hijack to the main issue in the OP. If you wish to debate this, please open a new thread in Great Debates. Let’s drop this here. Likewise the issue of the causes of the Civil War is a tangent and should be taken to another thread. This goes for everyone. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/37 "2015-04-24T17:37:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Were medals of valor issued for Confederate troops? Any MOH winners? > > Any records of Confederate medals issued? Any Medal Of Honor winners? Silver Stars? (post shortened) AFAIK, there was only one medal commissioned by the Confederate Congress, the Davis Guards Medal. The CSA didn’t need military medals as much as they needed iron, steel, brass, lead, and gun powder to fight their war for independence. _Richard Dowling, The Battle of Sabine Pass, and The Davis Guards Medal_ \*What Dowling and his men did on September 8, 1863 would go down in history as one of the greatest military upsets on American soil. The 47 men of the Davis Guard were faced with 5,000 enemy soldiers. Instead of drawing back, according to his official report, Dowling and his men used a motto that once brought heartache to Texas. They shouted “Victory or Death” as they aggressively attacked the Union forces. After 45 minutes, the Union soldiers retreated and the battle was over. The Davis Guards hadn’t lost a single man. They captured 350 prisoners, and 50 Union soldiers lay dead that day in a solid victory for the CSA. The Union forces would never again threaten Texas in a major confrontation until the Battle of Palmito Ranch (also a CSA victory), which was fought over a month after the Civil War had ended. The victory at the Battle of Sabine Pass was one of the reasons that Texas was the only southern state to never be successfully occupied during the Civil War. President Jefferson Davis was so pleased with the underdog victory that he asked the Confederate Congress to approve the commission of medals for the Davis Guard. The medal is thought to be the only one commissioned by the Confederate Congress. Each Guards member would receive a silver round medal attached to a green ribbon (in honor of their Irish background) that was engraved with Sabine Pass| Sept: 8th| 1863 on one side, and on the other D.G. with either a Maltese cross or the CSA flag below the initials. Naturally, being an honorary member of the Davis Guards, President Davis was also given a medal along with every Davis Guards member.\* [http://blog.hmns.org/2011/08/richard-dowling-the-battle-of-sabine-pass-and-the-davis-guards-medal/](http://blog.hmns.org/2011/08/richard-dowling-the-battle-of-sabine-pass-and-the-davis-guards-medal/) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/38 "2015-04-24T17:52:58Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The Union named Fort Bragg to thank him for his ineptitude. I take it then that it was for bragging rights. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/39 "2015-04-24T18:23:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The issue of whether Confederates were “Americans” is a bit of a hijack to the main issue in the OP. If you wish to debate this, please open a new thread in Great Debates. Let’s drop this here. > > Likewise the issue of the causes of the Civil War is a tangent and should be taken to another thread. Fair enough. Getting back to the topic of the OP, the Confederate government did not issue Medals of Honor during its existence. And the United States government has not issued Medals of Honor to people for serving in the Confederate cause. But there are some private organizations who have stepped in to fill what they see as this void. An organization called the United Daughters of the Confederacy began issuing the Southern Cross of Honor to Confederate veterans in 1898. And an organization called the Sons of Confederate Veterans began issuing the Confederate Medal of Honor in 1968 (posthumously of course). As noted, these are not “official” medals because they are issued by non-government organizations. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412/40 "2015-04-24T22:59:36Z")
Southern soldiers were given a general amnesty at the end of the war, provided they accepted the South’s capitulation and surrendered and disarmed. Revenge was not something the North wanted, just the opposite in fact. So to speculate: If the South had issued a lot of medals including a Confederate Medal of Honor would the Union have gone out of its way to strip soldiers of them? I \*\*seriously \*\*doubt it. First and foremost, you can’t really strip someone of something that you didn’t issue nor even recognize to begin with. And secondly, it would have been like rubbing salt in the wounds. There would have been huge repercussions and no benefit. When the Confederate submersible \*Hunley \*was finally recovered fifteen years ago the skeletal remains of the crew were still inside. They were buried with full ‘Confederate’ honors (including, according to Wiki,[the presence of modern color guards from all five branches of the US military).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_%28submarine%29#Crew) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-medals-of-valor-issued-for-confederate-troops-any-moh-winners/718412.md?page=3)