# We're never going to see these books, are we? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [October 16, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830 "2019-10-16T04:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/41 "2019-10-16T17:07:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit to being unfair to Forester. All of the other books I mentioned had long periods when people were awaiting them and asking if the author was ever going to finish them. > > That was not really the case with Forester. He had slowed his pace somewhat. His most recent completed book had been published in 1962 when he died in 1966. But there’s every indication that if he had lived, _Hornblower and the Crisis_ would have been completed and published within a year or two. > > As for the unauthorized completions, there’s one by [John Mahon](https://www.amazon.com/Jamaican-Affair-1805-Hornblower-Saga-ebook/dp/B00806S3Y6) and one by [R.W. Smith](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hornblower-the-crisis-jetse-reijenga/1105794278) in addition to the Parkinson one you mentioned. Hmm. e-books both, from the looks of things (I can’t find print copies). No wonder I missed them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/42 "2019-10-16T17:29:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Even if another author picked up Hornblower, there’s not a lot of room left- Forester had pretty much mined out the entire period of his career already; this new author would have to find little interstitial spaces in the existing narrative, write fun adventures within them, and all without messing up the existing Forester canon. > > That’s a tall order- I can’t really see too many cool adventures that could be written that wouldn’t have changed Hornblower’s subsequent career trajectory and thereby clash with the existing canon. I would dearly love to read some more Hornblower, providing they were any good, but maybe they could fit some more short stories in while Hornblower was a midshipman and lieutenant on the _Indefatigable_ or while he was on the _Renown_ before Captain Sawyer becomes paranoid and before Bush joins the ship. Or just pretend that the _Lydia_ went off on some missions before being sent to foment rebellion with El Supremo. I can forgive messing with the timeline if the stories are good enough, and in the spirit of the original. Which is, of course, a big If. > [@ClaMeacham](#): > > Not that the complete set doesn’t have inconsistencies, as well. In The Happy Return/Beat to Quarters (published in 1937) Captain Hornblower is said to have just met Mr. Bush when taking up command of the Lydia, whereas in Lieutenant Hornblower (published in 1952), they meet when they are both Lieutenants. And not just that it messed with the time line - the hero worship that Bush had for Hornblower is not psychologically realistic if Bush had ever been Hornblower’s superior officer. It’s not that Bush was jealous - Bush was a born second-in-command, and he admired Hornblower tremendously. But he and Hornblower were friends when they served together - they even went out and got drunk and blew their prize money together at one point. Bush loved Hornblower, but it was the love of a superior, not a peer. Bush would not have spoken of Hornblower as he did when discussing him with Lady Barbara in the first novel. Bush knew Hornblower’s strengths and discerned his weaknesses, but the speech makes it sound like he knew the weaknesses from observing Hornblower as the captain hiding his feelings under a mask of immobility. Lady Barbara comes to understand Hornblower in the same way, by observing him from the same level. But she loves Hornblower without hero worship, because she was never superior to Hornblower as Bush was. Plus she falls in love with him because of the evenings spent by the taffrail discussing literature. A beautiful, rich woman who likes to talk about books. One of my hopes as an adolescent. > [@](#): > > By the way, Forester wrote three more Hornblower stories that aren’t part of the “official canon”, apparently because they aren’t consistent with the official series of novels\* – “Hornblower and His Majesty”, “Hornblower and the Hand of Destiny”, and “Hornblower and the Charitable Offering”, all published 1940-1. Remind me not to eat or rest until I have tracked these stories down. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/43 "2019-10-16T18:04:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Hmm. e-books both, from the looks of things (I can’t find print copies). No wonder I missed them. That’s why I didn’t count that as a real part of the series. But I knew if I didn’t at least mention them, someone else would. For what it’s worth, there have also been unofficial versions of Flashman’s Civil War adventures by other authors. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/44 "2019-10-16T18:18:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would dearly love to read some more Hornblower, providing they were any good, but maybe they could fit some more short stories in while Hornblower was a midshipman and lieutenant on the _Indefatigable_ or while he was on the _Renown_ before Captain Sawyer becomes paranoid and before Bush joins the ship. > > Or just pretend that the _Lydia_ went off on some missions before being sent to foment rebellion with El Supremo. > > I can forgive messing with the timeline if the stories are good enough, and in the spirit of the original. Which is, of course, a big If. And not just that it messed with the time line - the hero worship that Bush had for Hornblower is not psychologically realistic if Bush had ever been Hornblower’s superior officer. > > It’s not that Bush was jealous - Bush was a born second-in-command, and he admired Hornblower tremendously. But he and Hornblower were friends when they served together - they even went out and got drunk and blew their prize money together at one point. Bush loved Hornblower, but it was the love of a superior, not a peer. > > Bush would not have spoken of Hornblower as he did when discussing him with Lady Barbara in the first novel. Bush knew Hornblower’s strengths and discerned his weaknesses, but the speech makes it sound like he knew the weaknesses from observing Hornblower as the captain hiding his feelings under a mask of immobility. > > Lady Barbara comes to understand Hornblower in the same way, by observing him from the same level. But she loves Hornblower without hero worship, because she was never superior to Hornblower as Bush was. > > Plus she falls in love with him because of the evenings spent by the taffrail discussing literature. > > A beautiful, rich woman who likes to talk about books. One of my hopes as an adolescent. > > Remind me not to eat or rest until I have tracked these stories down. > > Regards, > Shodan Two were published in _Colliers_, the third in _Argosy_. I tracked down the Colliers stories in the Boston Public Library. I’ve since learned that the three have been republished in anthologies. Have a look here > **[Horatio Hornblower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Hornblower)** > > Horatio Hornblower is a fictional officer in the British Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars, the protagonist of a series of novels and stories by C. S. Forester. He later became the subject of films and radio and television programmes, and C. Northcote Parkinson elaborated a "biography" of him, The True Story of Horatio Hornblower. > Forester's series about Hornblower tales began with the novel The Happy Return (US title: Beat to Quarters), published in 1937. Herein, Hornblower is a captain o... You can find the others stories here (an e-book again! Although I know they’ve been republished in print, as well): > **[Hornblower Addendum — Five Stories (Hornblower Saga Book 12) - Kindle edition by...](https://www.amazon.com/Hornblower-Addendum-Five-Stories-Saga-ebook/dp/B0053YAZ58)** > > Hornblower Addendum — Five Stories (Hornblower Saga Book 12) - Kindle edition by Forester, C. S.. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading... Here they are in print:" [https://www.historicnavalfiction.com/book-title-index/anthologies/hornblower-one-more-time](https://www.historicnavalfiction.com/book-title-index/anthologies/hornblower-one-more-time) This only has one, but is more accessible: [https://www.historicnavalfiction.com/book-title-index/anthologies/the-mammoth-book-of-hearts-of-oak](https://www.historicnavalfiction.com/book-title-index/anthologies/the-mammoth-book-of-hearts-of-oak) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/45 "2019-10-16T18:28:54Z")
[Moderating] **Gray Ghost** , I know that it’s been a while since the TV show ended, but let’s still avoid spoilers, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/46 "2019-10-16T19:34:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > **Gray Ghost** , I know that it’s been a while since the TV show ended, but let’s still avoid spoilers, shall we? It’s five months since the show ended, with possibly millions of webpages detailing what happened in Season 8. You’d have to be the Geico ‘guy under a rock’ to not know what happened at this point. I mean, thanks for the edit, I didn’t realize I’d committed a faux pas. So I don’t do it again, how long in the past must something have occurred before we can discuss it sans spoiler tags? Is saying what “Rosebud” means, OK? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/47 "2019-10-16T19:45:13Z")
Don’t open that box! There are people around here who scream bloody murder if anybody posts anything that even remotely spoils something they haven’t gotten around to reading/watching/eating. Even if said something was completed decades, nay centuries ago. Best to just spoiler your whole post and leave them guessing! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/48 "2019-10-16T20:41:04Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It might be too early to really say there won’t be another one, but I’m starting to doubt that Jasper Fforde will be writing any more novels in his _Shades of Grey_ series. There is a chronicly overdo [Last Dragonslayer](http://www.jasperfforde.com/dragon/dragon.html) book, too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/49 "2019-10-16T20:53:14Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > It’s five months since the show ended, with possibly millions of webpages detailing what happened in Season 8. You’d have to be the Geico ‘guy under a rock’ to not know what happened at this point. > > I mean, thanks for the edit, I didn’t realize I’d committed a faux pas. So I don’t do it again, how long in the past must something have occurred before we can discuss it sans spoiler tags? Is saying what “Rosebud” means, OK? A reasonable amount of time must pass. More than five months. Less than seventy-eight years. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/50 "2019-10-16T22:28:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > George R.R. Martin > The conclusion of _A Song of Ice and Fire_ series. > current status: The first five volumes of the seven volume series were published between 1991 and 2011. First one was only published in 1996, actually. Gaps between books: 1-2: 2 years 2-3: 2 years 3-4: 5 years 4-5: 6 years 5-6: Unkown, currently at 8 years with no date set ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/51 "2019-10-16T23:16:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > **Gray Ghost** , I know that it’s been a while since the TV show ended, but let’s still avoid spoilers, shall we? I sensed a spoiler coming, so I scrolled past as quickly as I could. But I’m one of those “I’ve been too busy with kids and work; I’ll watch that when I’m retired” people. So I go through major mental gymnastics to avoid plot points for The Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Men, Battlestar Galactica (both of 'em)… … and Lost in Space (do NOT tell me how Dr. Smith dies!) (or Jack Bauer or Darren Stevens or Gilligan). ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/52 "2019-10-17T01:05:17Z")
I’d love to see more of _Hornblower and the Crisis_: who “completed” it? **Shodan** , here’s a site where you can read “Hornblower and His Majesty”; I don’t remember where I found the other 2 but I think it was on a Russian site? > **[Hornblower and His Majesty](https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20190861)** > > Introducing the gallant hero of "Beat to Quarters," Captain Hornblower, in the first of a series of grand adventures. This time, the fighting sea dog runs away—but not to fight another day.—preface. > For his first command after escaping from France,... As for books that we’ll never see: the last of Sue Grafton’s Kinsey Milhone alphabet series; I don’t think that she even had a title for it. And Jane Austen’s _Sanditon_ and _The Watsons_, both of which have been “completed” by later authors, but IMHO not very well. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/53 "2019-10-17T01:07:00Z")
The OP mentioned Donald Kingsbury. Well, he apparently spent 20 years writing Courtship Rite and in the meantime has published Psychohistorical Crisis clearly an extension of Asimov’s Foundation series (except with all the names changed to avoid copyright problems–for example, Trantor was changed to Splendid Wisdom). He never mentioned to me that he was working on a sequel to Courtship Rite. We were colleagues, although both long retired. I rather doubt that Steve Brust will ever finish the last five books of the Vlad series. He seems to have lost interest and is currently working on the sixth Khaavren romance. And he smokes like a chimney. I wish Sharon Shinn would write the obviously required fifth book of her elemental blessings series, but she told me she has no intention of doing so. And I wish Laura Anne Gilman would write another couple of Wren stories, but I guess she has no intention of doing so. Or more Bonnie stories. She has about the most sympathetic heroines around. As does Sharon Shinn. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/54 "2019-10-17T01:23:14Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I’m going to add Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files. > > It seems like he’s lost interest in the character now that he doesn’t need Harry to boost his bottom line. _Peace Talks_ (the next book in the Dresden Files series) is done and in the hands of the publisher. It should be out next year. Jim Butcher had a whole lot of crap going on in his life (divorce, his dog died, his new house construction was delayed by a massive amount due to incompetent contractors, etc.) that made it difficult for him to write. He’s back on track now, so I think we’ll start seeing the books coming faster. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/55 "2019-10-17T01:29:48Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > My comments: Gerrold is never going to finish the Chtorr stories, and that’s not a bad thing. They were getting worse as it continued anyway, and I’ve got no faith in his ability to turn the quality around now. Aye. :mad: Stephen R. Donaldson (yes, him) will prolly never write another Mick Axebrewder book even tho he says he’s working on one. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/56 "2019-10-17T02:02:19Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > _Peace Talks_ (the next book in the Dresden Files series) is done and in the hands of the publisher. It should be out next year. > > Jim Butcher had a whole lot of crap going on in his life (divorce, his dog died, his new house construction was delayed by a massive amount due to incompetent contractors, etc.) that made it difficult for him to write. He’s back on track now, so I think we’ll start seeing the books coming faster. As long as he gets back to the **Cinder Spires** sometime soon I’ll forgive him the delay on the _Dresden Files_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/57 "2019-10-17T04:05:27Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The OP mentioned Donald Kingsbury. Well, he apparently spent 20 years writing Courtship Rite and in the meantime has published Psychohistorical Crisis clearly an extension of Asimov’s Foundation series (except with all the names changed to avoid copyright problems–for example, Trantor was changed to Splendid Wisdom). He never mentioned to me that he was working on a sequel to Courtship Rite. We were colleagues, although both long retired. Kingsbury has completed drafts of the book and publishers have seen it so the manuscript does exist in some form. It’s apparently one of the earliest things he wrote. I found a 1982 interview where he spoke of it and at that point he said he had been “polishing the manuscript” for thirty-five years. In a 2006 article, he said he was still working on it. _The Finger Pointing Solward_ may not really be a sequel to _Courtship Rite_. The two novels share a common background; _The Finger Pointing Solward_ was written first but is set later than _Courtship Rite_. So we apparently have a novel that’s been around in some completed form since 1947 but still is being revised for publication. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/58 "2019-10-17T04:12:15Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > I’d love to see more of _Hornblower and the Crisis_: who “completed” it? I linked to two of the completed versions in post #34. The C. Northcote Parkinson book is available [here](https://www.amazon.com/Life-Times-Horatio-Hornblower-Biography-ebook/dp/B06WRV61YD). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/59 "2019-10-17T04:25:09Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830/60 "2019-10-17T04:39:51Z")
Can we include movies? I doubt we’ll ever see: - History of the World part II - Spaceballs III - The Search For Spaceballs II. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-never-going-to-see-these-books-are-we/841830.md?page=4)