But we can’t fix that, so what can we do?
That’s what has people so frustrated…they don’t know WHAT to do. In my suburb, which never saw a social problem it couldn’t throw money at, they just raise taxes and increase funding. It never seems to help the problems it’s meant to address. The Catholic schools, which spend less money per student, do much better. I seriously doubt that trooping all those kids up to Winnetka isn’t going to help. I think one of the best steps taken by the city is to spread out subsidized housing, so that all the kids with the worst family situations aren’t crammed into one school, but there are still really, really bad neighborhoods where you’re lucky if you don’t get shot on the way to school, never mind what happens once you get there. It’s extremely disheartening, and to me, it’s even more so when the efforts of the community seem so misguided.
Sarahfeena, darling, you know I love you more than cheese, but - as far as the CPS schools go - this is bullshit. Over 7,000 students apply for the testing to get into Lane Tech every year - for less than 1,000 slots. It’s not just a matter of testing - first you have to “test in”, and then it’s a random lottery of all the applicants who tested high enough. Same for Chicago Science and Math, Whitney Young and all the rest. There just aren’t enough seats at “the good schools” even for the straight A white kids. And by “the good schools”, I mean, “the schools that have good reputations but test scores still show them to be some of the suckiest schools in the state - just the least sucky of the CPS schools.”
Yeah, I’m a bit bitter. My son tested (passed) and applied to all of them, including the ones it would’ve taken over an hour commute to each day, and didn’t get into a single one. Two years running. Yet he’s in the top 5% of his sucky school now, still with some Bs and Cs on his report card! Second semester of his freshman year they moved him into the “Medical Science Academy”, despite the fact that he has no interest in Medical Science. Still, it’s a slightly better curriculum with slightly better (and paler, I notice) students within the sucky school.
That part, I agree with. Throwing more money at it is not the answer. The schools I went to (District 230 in the south suburbs) spend far less per pupil and get far better test scores, truancy rates and graduation and college placement rates.
It’s almost entirely social, honestly, people. These kids come in not giving a shit and they leave, either through dropping out or maybe graduating through social promotion, not giving a shit. And they don’t give a shit because their parents don’t give a shit, or they’re too tired or too busy or too limited by their own lack of skills to help.
First semester of his freshman year, my son was in a dismal science class. He hated it, hated the teacher, hated his fellow students. When I met with her, the first thing she did (sorry, the second thing she did - the first thing she did was give him extra credit because his mother actually showed up to a conference) was tell me that he didn’t belong in her class. In a class of 30 students, 17 were on probation, and 8 of them had served more than one prison term. On any given day, 2 or 3 were out on excused absences with parole officers, criminal court dates or family court (meaning their babymamas were suing for child support, mostly). Another 6 - but not always the same 6 - could be counted on to be truant. How the hell is she supposed to teach an interesting and challenging class with that sort of population? How do you teach a class when the students aren’t there?
On the race issue, I swear to Og, I moved into Chicago with a wide open heart, and I’m becoming more and more racist the longer I live here. I keep trying to remind myself it’s social, not racial, but after your 15 year old comes to you in tears because he’s frightened being the only white kid in a classroom full of students watching Roots, it’s really really hard not to slip into Us vs. Them mentality. It’s really hard not to notice that all those students the science teacher was saying hold her class back are black. It’s really hard not to notice that for a school with a 97% black population, the teacher conference and report card pick up days when I’m there I see no more than 25% black parents. It’s really hard not to notice that the two honors curricula (the Medical Science and something called Paedaia (sp?)) are mostly non-blacks, and have a 100% graduation and college placement rate in a school with an 82% graduation rate.
You are right, and I should have fleshed out that answer more. I know that the CPS system isn’t working, even with the magnet schools. My point was that programs like that are how to solve the problem, not worrying about what’s going on in those north shore suburbs. I mean, Manda JO’s story illustrates the point perfectly…no matter how the funding happens, those schools WILL get funded. Fuck those rich folks…they aren’t going to let their kids get away with anything less than the very best. If the school couldn’t build a fancy theater, the parents would raise the money to do it. CPS doesn’t need to worry about that, it needs to fix what’s broken. It’s a big city, and they have tons of money, but it gets wasted or it disappears through corruption. Build a BETTER magnet school system if that’s what it takes.
Crap. I hit submit on accident and then timed out before I could fix those numbers:
Black enrollment: 58.1%
Graduation rate (whole school) 48.3%
48.3%!!! WTF?
WhyNot, just out of curiosity, where are you getting those numbers for graduation rates, etc.? I’ve been poking around for some funding stats, etc. broken down by school district, but haven’t found anything so far.
Seriously, those CPS stats are why my parents moved to Evanston when I was a baby and we moved to the Midwest from the East Coast. Sure, they could have lived somewhere that was closer to my dad’s job and/or had cheaper housing costs, but the schools issue was their #1 deciding factor.
Yes, build a better magnet school. I agree wholeheartedly, but it will be a very political process, especially when the underprivileged are involved. Strict subsidized housing seems to be working, so those few families can be sent to better schools. However, what this encourages is a means based testing from the start of the child’s birth. This is pretty socialist, imo, though, I’m not all that against it. I do, however, want to see people get themselves off the government dole, though a plan like this will offer no incentive – unless punishments are severe, like your kid goes to foster care or a state run organization. Barring less draconian measures, the only hope is that the current generation of parents (or soon-to-be types) will have to make the sacrifice themselves.
When my parents came over, I was fortunate enough to have parents willing to stay when I was born, and make a decent home in the suburbs (spending over 50% of their take home pay to have the shittiest home in the neighborhood), so that I could go to a good school district. They could’ve easily emigrated back, and taken their cash with them so that I could grow up in a 3rd world economy, though they would’ve lived like royalty. Unfortunately, I don’t think the individualistic mindset in America today is willing to make the sacrifice, particularly in those hard hit CPS neighborhoods.
Still, I do like the idea of subsidization (holy shit, I can’t believe I’m saying that, but it’s the most efficient way that I can think of, though not politically expedient). But first, I’d rather see more magnet schools and more standardized testing, so that we can compare stats more readily. I would also like to see an accreditation process to bring competition in from market based schools, because I believe in the efficiency of markets. For people on subsidization, and/or for more school funding, there should be parent involvement. Unfortunately, some government organization is going to need to be created to monitor all of this. I don’t mind expanding Child Services or encouraging tax breaks for social workers and teachers.
Those particular numbers are from city-data.com. Sullivan High School We’re number 12! We’re number 12! On a scale from 0 (worst) to 100 (best), that is. sigh
The CPS website does have the same information on “School Report Cards” at its website, but it’s horrendous to navigate and has lots of pdf’s on it. I suspect it was designed by a CPS graduate. 
Yep. We were in Evanston until the end of junior high, when we were finally really priced out. (60% of income to housing? Try 75-80%. We ate a lot of ramen and have $0 in savings!) So Rogers Park it was (is) - 'though if we had known how slim our chances were of getting him into a magnet or charter school, we probably would have headed back to the suburbs, instead. We figured he’d just go to Lane Tech and everything’d be fine.
I’ve considered packing up and moving away from all my friends and family (and my own education), too. But there’s that guilt about not making things any better by leaving - oh, great, so they’ll have one LESS involved family, that’ll help. :rolleyes: So we do a lot of homeschooling in addition to school-schooling, to help the kid keep up with realistic standards. And, honestly, being the valedictorian of a shitty school (which he could totally be if he just does all his homework) instead of in the 74th percentile of a good school may be a better college entrance/scholarship strategy for him in the long run.
Oh, and he’s totally going to school the first day!
Why would you think that’s guaranteed to work?
My town’s entire school district is made up of magnet schools. Montclair is a reasonably affluent, mixed race town, 60% white 30% black. There are no neighborhood schools, no black schools, no white schools, no rich schools, no poor schools. Parents pick which grade school they want their kid to go to, and the district assigns your school based on the choices, with an eye toward a requirement to make sure each school has the same racial makeup as the town at large. Black students and white students have access to the same classrooms from kindergarten through graduation.
You think there isn’t an “achievement gap” here? It’s shocking to look at the NCLB scores and see how many more black students fail to be proficient than white students, and how many more white students are advanced than black students.
Academic performance has a lot more to do with the students going to the school, than which school they go to.
Of course it does, and I don’t know for sure if that’s what would work. But I was responding specifically to even sven’s comment about a good student who wants to work hard, but who can’t get a good education at her local school. That’s the kind of kid the magnet schools will work for, if they can get a spot at one. The kids who don’t care, well, I don’t know if anything can be done about that.
You haven’t ever found anything that compares schools statewide, have you? (I don’t have kids, but my nephew will be 3 this coming month, and my sister is going to have to start thinking about these things.O)
Do you mean, like, “I can move anywhere, what are the top 3 elementary schools in the state?” or “How does my local school compare with state averages?” If the later, then starting with the school district’s website is your best bet. By state law, they have to publish test results (which include both the individual school’s results and the state average for comparison) annually. Most choose to do so somewhere on their website, as well as in local newspapers. If it’s the former, I’m not sure. I emailed my mom to ask her what websites she uses. (She’s a teacher in Illinois, and always seems to know this stuff.) If she has a good answer, I’ll let you know.
Oh, I wish they could move anywhere! They’re in Skokie at the moment, but with the way my BIL’s industry is going (mortgage lending), I don’t know how long they will be able to stay there. So it would be nice if they could just poke around and see what their options are.
Mom says Greatschools is pretty easy to use and has good information. I notice there are articles on there specifically on choosing the right school and how to start. Her other bookmarks are on her school computer, so I might have some more for you later.
It’s very stressful living on such a thin margin. I am glad I like ramen noodles! I work a second job ( and am seriously considering a third) but I hope it is worth it. My kids are absolutely THRIVING at their new schools. Claire is about to start New Trier and has acclimated to the new environment really well. Andrew is going to Marie Murphy where Claire just graduated from and her teachers have actually called the house to welcome Andrew and tell him how much they art
Click the link for a great article in the Reader about funding differences between the city and suburbs.
Down here in southern Cook County, HF (usually referred to as the New Trier of the southern suburbs) pushes AP classes for all. I cannot tell you how sick I am of them pushing AP (because I keep getting letters home about it), but it does help students who may not have tried it (who may have thought that since they’re only in “regular” level classes) to go ahead and try. It’s one answer.
These suburbs are experiencing a demographic shift recently. We have no plans to move and are happy with the diversity, but make no mistake-if the test scores fall significantly OR there is a culture shift within the student population, we will not hesitate to move. My older kids (who are quite a bit older than my youngest) already report open hazing in the HS hallways–black kids harassing white (for all I know, white kids are harassing blacks–my kids only report what happens to them. My daughter should be able to walk to class without being called a honky ho by strangers, for one example. Going to the Dean does nothing–they did do something about the sexually harassing notes she got freshman year, though.)
I don’t anticipate it getting much worse (not that that’s not bad enough) because the families that have moved in are overwhelmingly black middle to upper middle class–as are the Latinos and the Korean and Indian families–IOW, we tend to share the same values. We are hoping for the best case scenario: a diverse, stable community with good test scores and supported schools. So far, so good. We don’t want to move. If that makes me a classist bitch, so be it.
So far, the test scores are holding steady. Falling test scores when minorities become a significant percentage of the student population have nothing to do with genetics or inherent ability–they have everything to do with socialization of those children and their families. It’s not race, but it is race, in a way. There is no evidence that African-American kids are less able academically, but it cannot be denied that they test more poorly. It’s a crime and a shame-but can we only blame the schools/teachers or just keep building new schools etc? Meeks is way out of line and just exacerbating an already grave problem.
The change has to go deeper and the change must be more profound. School must be a priority within the family unit (however that is defined). I wish some AA leaders would step forward and say that (as Obama did–or close to it), instead of blaming “the Man” as Meeks seems to be doing. God knows the Man had something to do with it, but the Man is not the only thing keeping black kids down. It’s a vicious cycle of mom or dad (or both) working 2 or more jobs(because they have to–or not working because they can’t make as much as they can on public aid-the working poor), so less time and attention to the kids which leads them into trouble. I see it with some people at work–not just black nurses, but any color. The less involved the parent is at home or at the school, the less likely the child is to achieve or even hold their own. Add in possible learning disabilities, overburdened school resources and you have a recipe for drop out and yet another generation is ghettoized. I’m simplifying, but this is what I see.
My youngest (#2 son for those of you following along at home) is not in the gifted and honors programs like my older two. He is in with the average kids–and what an eye opener that has been for me. Do you know how you get suspended in 3rd grade? You jump ONTO the teacher’s desk, yelling “fuck you!”–that’s how. :eek: This type of behavior is so alien to what #2 son is used to he seriously had no way to process it-the black* kid who did this sat next to #2 son. It scared him. It’s a concern for sure.
I cannot imagine what kind of out of control home environment engendered such an acting out. I can only hope that social services is involved (and just how good is that? They’re no panacea, IMO).
I hate to sound like this. I hate thinking this way, but I have to look out for my kids’ best interests. Like WhyNot, I am feeling a bit worn down with the whole issue.
*it could have been any color kid. I’m not saying that a black kid is more likely to act out in this way. Clearly this is a troubled kid, but couple this with the hostile behavior at the HS and a cultural divide is starting to emerge. What to do? I haven’t a clue.
Nothing. If you can’t fix that, you’re done. Best thing you can do is give the involved parents the opportunity to move their kids to an environment where they can succeed, some type of school choice or voucher type system, and for the students that are left (the “bad” students in the “bad” schools), you run the school like a boot camp-dress codes, order, strict discipline, extreme consequences for misbehavior(both educational and legal. Call the cops on the troublemakers and haul their ass off to jail), heavily geared towards the trades. Some of the students will gain the self respect and discipline they need to start performing from that environment, they can then be promoted to more academically oriented schools if they want. Some of them will gain valuable skills that they can use to make a comfortable living. The idea that all students can or should go to college is a myth and it needs to be squashed. Plumbers make more than lawyers (generally. The top tier of lawyers make obscene money). Mechanics, electricians and carpenters can almost always find good work if they are willing to work. That’s opportunity for those kids to work their way into the middle class. As for the rest…you have to accept that there is a certain percentage of the kids who are not going to succeed, no matter what you do, no matter how much money you spend. The key is to minimize the damage these kids do to the rest because of their misbehavior and general thuggishness.
If we can’t teach something as simple as algebra I successfully in public schools, why do you think we will be able to teach something as complex as electronics or carpentry or plumbing? The reasons those jobs pay so well is that they take a certain amount of intelligence and creativity to excel at. Not rocket-scientist, but more complex than many state graduation exams. When only the upper-middle class went to college, bright working class people pursued the trades. Now, bright working class people can go to college, and most of them would rather make good money inside in the air conditioning than outside in the heat. In your system, all those kids would leave the “trade” schools, leaving only the least motivated, least inspired, least able in their place. From these kids you are going to pull airline mechanics and construction workers? I think not.
I don’t think it’s time yet to declare we can’t do anything to help motivate kids who don’t get it at home: writing off those kids both costs us two ways: we lose their potential contributions to society and we gain the social cost of having to support them and their offspring. I don’t have any pat answer as to how we do it on a macro scale, but I’ve got my butt in an urban school trying to do it the best I can on the individual level. It can be done.
When Bro and SiL were hashing out possible schools for the kids, they favored two different ones which happen to be across the street from each other.
SiL favored a school, A, where children are taught 100% in English (this is in Spain) since kindergarten (*). Bro favored our old school, B.
The two things that ended up deciding the situation in favor of our old school were my remark that at some point the kids will be going to college and need to be able to do math in Spanish, and Mom’s mention that the PTA for A meets in one of the regular classrooms; the PTA for B hires the town’s theater, brings in additional folding chairs and there’s always people who have to stand up. The student bodies for both schools are of a similar size.
(*) That sounds as if every class is taught in English, doesn’t it? And that’s how they try to make it sound, as if the only class taught in Spanish was Spanish. But our group of friends includes one of their History teachers and one of their Math teachers and, well, let’s just say their English isn’t exactly up to Dopey standards…
While I agree with you in general, I don’t think the concentration of those schools should be in trade, though it should be more widely available than say, AP classes. I think the problem isn’t lack of intelligence, but behavioral/socialization issues. So, yeah, I agree that there should be harsh lessons in obeying the rules and discipline. But, there should also be a balance to teach creativity, because that is what will be needed to do some of the work they seem destined to do.
I have a concern that this proposal will do is create a two tier system in society and reinforce people’s notion of racism (now institutionalized) and classism. I try not to judge a person just by looking at them, but at the same time, the realist in me knows that people do that all the time, myself included. The should be a chance for these kids to succeed, not to automatically give up on them as I feel is what this system will eventually grind itself into. There should be opportunities for kids in these schools to not choose to be there, by testing into a better school (or some other method based on merit), for example.
Economically speaking, though, I really like the idea of a preplanned work force, keeping stuff I don’t do myself (home repair, electrical and plumbing) regulated to the masses. A lot of people in this field means more competition and lower prices for me. 
It also gives a sizable base to retain some manufacturing base in the country which is good for a diverse economy.