# Were Roman masters allowed to kill their slaves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652 "2006-04-14T13:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/1 "2006-04-14T13:31:53Z")
I recall a passage from Durant’s _Caesar and Christ,_ discussing the institution of Roman slavery – “but under no circumstances could his master kill him [the slave].” But I’ve read many historical novels that assume the contrary – a slave he no civil rights at all, and a master could kill, even crucify, a slave without asking permission of any public authority. What’s the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/2 "2006-04-14T14:05:09Z")
Under Roman law during the Republic, the head of a household (_pater familias_) had the right to kill any member of his household…his children, his wife, his slaves. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/3 "2006-04-14T15:33:29Z")
Yes, it was known as _patria potestas_. The head of the family had absolute power over the members of the _familia_, which included all members of the family and all property, including slaves, belonging to the family. This power extended to life and death (_ius vitae necisque_), limited only by the restraints of sacred law, by the habit of consulting a family council and, in case of gross abuse, by the possibility of animadversion by the censors. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/4 "2006-04-14T15:39:06Z")
A little more, from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_in_Roman_legal_system) “The legal state of slaves was based on the fact that the slave was not a subject but an object of law. A master had the right of ownership over the slave, he could sell him, give in pawn, kill him ( ius vitae ac necis), and if someone injured his slave a master could initiate legal proceedings and demand protection. The ownership over the slave was called dominica potestas, and not dominium like the ownership of objects and animals.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/5 "2006-04-14T19:15:04Z")
Slaves’ lot improved a bit in the later Empire. (Just went to a seminar earlier this week that touched on this subject, as it happens!). John Taylor’s _Elements of the Civil Law_ (1754) noted that, before the collapse of the Empire, “several important changes had been introduced favourable to the slaves.” Hadrian promulgated a law that prohibited “cruel treatment towards slaves,” and even earlier, the killing of a slave by its owner was punishable by the state. Roman law also permitted slaves to own property of their own (_peculium_). According to Prof. Thomas D. Morris of Portland State University in his _Southern Slavery and the Law, 1619-1860_ (Univ. of N.C. Press, 1996), _‘If much in Roman law and life can be said to dehumanize the slave… the peculium did much to humanize him.’ There was no limit to the amount of property a slave could acquire, nor were there limits on the kind of property. Slaves could ‘hold slaves, even many slaves, of their own.’ Furthermore, slaves could be educated; some were very knowledgeable indeed, and some were ‘high-income earners…’_ However, the Roman law of _senatus consultum silanianum_ required that if a master was murdered by a slave, all the slaves ‘who lived under the same roof are to be subjected to torture and then condemned to death…’ The ancient Roman principle of _partus sequitur ventrem_ (“the status of the child derives from the mother”) was adopted in many Southern states before the Civil War, BTW, meaning that children born to slave women would themselves be slaves. Not good. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/6 "2006-04-14T19:50:47Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] However, the Roman law of _senatus consultum silanianum_ required that if a master was murdered by a slave, all the slaves ‘who lived under the same roof are to be subjected to torture and then condemned to death…’ [/QUOTE] So if I’m a slave and I see another slave about to kill my master, can I kill that slave or will I then be held accountable to destroying my masters property (so I’m boned either way)? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/7 "2006-04-14T19:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=zoid] So if I’m a slave and I see another slave about to kill my master, can I kill that slave or will I then be held accountable to destroying my masters property (so I’m boned either way)? [/QUOTE] Only if you had a really strange master. “Well, you saved my life, But you killed a slave in doing it, so now I have to punish you.” ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/8 "2006-04-14T22:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Only if you had a really strange master. “Well, you saved my life, But you killed a slave in doing it, so now I have to punish you.” [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t put it past them! There’s the story of the murder trial in whixh the accused man was convicted and sentenced to death, even though he swore that the supposed victim was merely away on business. As he was about to be executed the next day the ‘victim’ himself rushed up to halt the execution, having just got back to Rome. He explained the situation to the executioner, who then led the much-relieved prisoner and the other man back to the judge, who listened impassively as the executioner told him what had occurred. The judge promptly ordered the execution of all three men: the first, as he had already been condemned to death; the second, for causing the death of an innocent man; and the executioner, for failing to carry out his duty. _Fiat justitia ruat caelum._ - “Let justice be done though the heavens tremble.” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/9 "2006-04-14T23:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] There’s the story of the murder trial… [/QUOTE] Cite, please? Because I find this a really hard story to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/10 "2006-04-14T23:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Cite, please? Because I find this a really hard story to swallow. [/QUOTE] Cite Schmite. He didn’t say it was an Ancient Roman story, just that it was a story. And it is. In that sense, I guess his post is… Anyway, > [@](#): > > Roman law also permitted slaves to own property of their own (peculium). According to Prof. Thomas D. Morris of Portland State University in his Southern Slavery and the Law, 1619-1860 (Univ. of N.C. Press, 1996), > > 'Furthermore, slaves could be educated; some were very knowledgeable indeed, and some were ‘high-income earners…’ IIRC, the playwright Terence was a slave, at least at the beginning of his career. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/11 "2006-04-15T00:17:45Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I recall a passage from Durant’s _Caesar and Christ,_ discussing the institution of Roman slavery – “but under no circumstances could his master kill him [the slave].” But I’ve read many historical novels that assume the contrary – a slave he no civil rights at all, and a master could kill, even crucify, a slave without asking permission of any public authority. What’s the straight dope? [/QUOTE] I doubt that this passage is anywhere in the book, so I think you’re remembering it incorrectly. From pp. 397-8: > [@](#): > > The slave had no legal rights whatever… [The owner], under the law of the Republic, could beat him, imprison him, condemn him to fight beasts in the arena, expose him to die of starvation, or kill him, with cause or without, and with no other control than a public opinion formed by slaveowners. If a slave ran away and was caught he could be branded or crucified… However, Rome lasted for a long time and slaves, possibly because they became rarer and more valuable, gradually received less stringent treatment. > [@](#): > > Claudius prohibited the killing of a useless slave and ruled that an abandoned sick slave who recovered should become automatically free…Domitian made it a criminal offense to mutilate slaves for sensual purposes… Marcus Aurelius encouraged owners to bring before them the courts, rather than themselves punish, damages sustained by them from their slaves; in this way, he hoped, law and judgment would gradually replace brutality and private revenge… > > Despite these limitations, the legal subjection of slaves in the worst blot on Roman law… ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/12 "2006-04-15T15:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Cite, please? Because I find this a really hard story to swallow. [/QUOTE] What **Saoirse** said. Sheesh, if you must have a cite for a tale, it’s from Seneca and told of Lucius Calpurnius Piso (not sure of chapter and verse though). Here’s what [Brewer](http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/983.html) has: **Piso’s Justice** That is Piso’s justice. Verbally right, but morally wrong. Seneca tells us that Piso condemned a man on circumstancial evidence for murder; but when the suspect was at the place of execution, the man supposed to have been murdered exclaimed, “Hold, hold! I am the man supposed to have been killed.” The centurion sent back the prisoner to Piso, and explained the case to him; whereupon Piso condemned all three to death, saying, “Fiat justitia.” The man condemned is to be executed because sentence of death has been passed upon him, and fiat justitia; the centurion is to be executed because he has disobeyed orders, and fiat justitia; the man supposed to have been murdered is to be executed because he has been the cause of death to two innocent men, and \*fiat justitia etsi coelum ruat. \* ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-roman-masters-allowed-to-kill-their-slaves/352652/13 "2006-04-15T15:37:53Z")
Just as well I looked it up. I see that I had the condemnations a little awry. Oh well! Same difference. 🙂