# We're Talking About Statehood For DC and PR, Why Not Guam, USVI, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237 "2021-05-30T21:10:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/1 "2021-05-30T21:10:43Z")
That’s it, really. Since Biden got elected, I’ve heard talk of statehood for Washington, DC and Puerto Rico. Why not the rest of the USA’s populated territories? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/2 "2021-05-30T21:37:00Z")
Gotta start somewhere… It’s not a Democrat thing. This isn’t something that the rest of the country is trying to foist on these places. There are active statehood movements in both DC and PR. Aiui, the residents of Amer Samoa and Guam aren’t really in favor of statehood. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/3 "2021-05-30T21:39:41Z")
These others have extremely low population. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/4 "2021-05-30T21:49:11Z")
I heard a podcast a while back, about American Samoa. The majority of the samoans really really really don’t want statehood. They don’t want citizenship. If they all become citizens, then they’ll have to chuck some of their most beloved laws, like the one that requires a person to be \>50% samoan to own land, or the law about compulsory moment of silence observations on Sundays. One of the fears is that if they become a state, their island will go the way of Hawaii, control and property slipping out of their hands. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/5 "2021-05-30T21:51:00Z")
Was it this? > **[Americanish](https://radiolab.org/episodes/americanish?)** > > We travel to the limbo space between foreign and domestic to find the up and downsides of being a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/6 "2021-05-30T21:53:20Z")
@mikecurtis Yes, that was it! I’d rummaged around in This American Life podcasts, thinking it was one of them, then gave up and just posted about it. But that’s the one. Really quite an interesting perspective. It’s quite the conservative Christian society there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/7 "2021-05-30T22:01:08Z")
And, they would have to pay income tax. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/8 "2021-05-31T03:05:31Z")
The population of Wyoming is 580,000, and it’s a state. The population of Puerto Rico is 3.2 million, so it’s clearly big enough to be a state. The population of Guam, meanwhile (the next-biggest territory, if I’m not mistaken) is 170,000. While there’s no officially-set minimum possible size for a state, it’s not entirely clear that that’s large enough. Even if you combined Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa, you’d still be well smaller than Wyoming. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/9 "2021-05-31T05:51:38Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I heard a podcast a while back, about American Samoa. What’s the thought in the Virgin Islands about statehood? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/10 "2021-05-31T05:59:22Z")
### Self-determination[[edit source](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_Virgin_Islands&action=edit§ion=12)] _A [1993 referendum on status](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_United_States_Virgin_Islands_status_referendum) attracted only 31.4% turnout, and so its results (in favor of the status quo) were considered void.[[63]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Virgin_Islands#cite_note-64) No further status referenda have been scheduled since._ Pop= 105,870 ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/11 "2021-05-31T06:05:42Z")
Considering, they don’t even have their own govt. Let’s take one step at a time. > **[Virgin Islanders Overwhelmingly Support Referendum Calling For Constitutional...](https://viconsortium.com/vi-election/virgin-islands-virgin-islanders-overwhelmingly-support-referendum-calling-for-constitutional-convention)** > > Virgin Islanders Overwhelmingly Support Referendum Calling for Constitutional Convention ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/12 "2021-05-31T06:14:03Z")
DC has support for statehood that closely resembles election results in Syria, and it doesn’t have any of the benefits (like not paying federal income tax) that other non-states get, so it would probably be the easiest of all of them. Puerto Rico is more complicated, but it seems there may be majority support for statehood, and it’s by far the largest territory, and larger than several states, so it’s naturally the first that people would focus on. There’s also a large population of people that identify as Puerto Rican in the USA proper, and advocacy for statehood can be a way to pander for votes. There’s not a lot of opinion polling in Guam, but in 2016 [a poll](https://www.kuam.com/story/31747261/2016/04/Sunday/uog-poll-guamanians-prefer-statehood) found high support for statehood, and their quadrennial presidential straw poll gets fairly good turnout. There’s intermittent talk about Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands merging, which would add 57,000 to Guam’s population, but it’s less clear that the people of Guam support that (there was a merger referendum in 1969, approved in the Northern Marianas but rejected in Guam). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/13 "2021-05-31T06:19:14Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > DC has support for statehood that closely resembles election results in Syria,… What does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/14 "2021-05-31T06:44:04Z")
I took it to mean that he considers a vote on statehood to be a sure thing, much like Syria’s elections for Assad (although the former would be a legitimate result, unlike the latter). ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/15 "2021-05-31T07:19:39Z")
Yes, I didn’t mean to say they’d be equally legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/16 "2021-05-31T08:57:20Z")
Current populations of each of these: Puerto Rico: 3,285,874 Washington, D.C.: 689,545 Guam: 168,485 United States Virgin Islands: 106,235 American Samoa: 51,433 Northern Mariana Islands: 49,437 Puerto Rico is more populous than 21 states, Washington, D.C. is more populous than 2 states, and the other four put together are less populous than any state. > **[List of U.S. states and territories by population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The states and territories included in the United States Census Bureau's statistics for the United States (population, ethnicity, religion, and most other categories) include the 50 states and the District of Columbia (Washington, D.C.). Separate statistics are maintained for the five permanently inhabited territories of the United States (Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands). > The United... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/17 "2021-05-31T12:53:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > DC has support for statehood that closely resembles election results in Syria, and it doesn’t have any of the benefits (like not paying federal income tax) that other non-states get, so it would probably be the easiest of all of them. The hardest, actually, because unlike the others, it would require a Constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/18 "2021-05-31T13:17:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The hardest, actually, because unlike the others, it would require a Constitutional amendment. It’s very debatable that DC statehood would require a Constitutional amendment. Under the current House Democratic proposal, Congress would simply define the federal district as the White House, Mall and other federal properties while admitting the rest of the current district as a state. Congress could direct how the electors assigned to DC under the 23rd Amendment are awarded, for example assigning them to whichever candidate wins the most electoral votes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/19 "2021-05-31T13:34:48Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Congress could direct how the electors assigned to DC under the 23rd Amendment are awarded, for example assigning them to whichever candidate wins the most electoral votes. I’m not convinced that Congress could, in fact, direct that those electors be chosen in some way other than election by the residents of whatever the federal district is. And they certainly couldn’t direct that it be done according to who won the nationwide popular vote, because there is no mechanism for the federal government to even officially determine who won the nationwide popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237/20 "2021-05-31T13:41:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not convinced that Congress could, in fact, direct that those electors be chosen in some way other than election by the residents of whatever the federal district is. The 23rd Amendment states in part, “The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint _in such manner as Congress may direct:_” It certainly doesn’t require that DC’s electors be appointed by popular election – states aren’t required to appoint electors by popular election. > [@Chronos](#): > > And they certainly couldn’t direct that it be done according to who won the nationwide popular vote, because there is no mechanism for the federal government to even officially determine who won the nationwide popular vote. Which is why I suggested they could go to the candidate with the most electoral votes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-talking-about-statehood-for-dc-and-pr-why-not-guam-usvi-northern-mariana-islands-american-samoa/943237.md?page=2)