# Were the 2 girls that died on the SFO flight seat belted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 8, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987 "2013-07-08T23:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/1 "2013-07-08T23:15:29Z")
Both girls apparently were ejected from the plane. Is there any way they had their seat belts on? It seemed that the only way one could be ejected from a plane while wearing a seat belt, would be if you were cut in half. Those seat belts are strong. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/2 "2013-07-08T23:25:08Z")
There are persistent stories that one of them was struck by an emergency vehicle, although whether this is true (and whether she was alive when/if it happened) have yet to be confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/3 "2013-07-08T23:35:45Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > It seemed that the only way one could be ejected from a plane while wearing a seat belt, would be if you were cut in half. Those seat belts are strong. It is also possible, and has happened, that an entire airline seat is ejected from the crashing aircraft, taking the securely belted passenger with it. Which is not to say that’s what happened, just that it is possible. Consider how many large bits and pieces of the aircraft, such as the entire tail, the landing gear, and the engines, departed the rest of the wreck and a seat leaving the main fuselage seems plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/4 "2013-07-08T23:49:45Z")
In support of the “entire seat” theory - I just heard a report on CNN of a guy who escaped from the plane, and then realized that he hadn’t taken his seatbelt off - he was “wearing” his seat still. If that’s true, then at least one seat came loose from the fittings on the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/5 "2013-07-09T01:20:20Z")
Every time I’ve flown on any airline, including a few times on Asiana, the flight attendants have always ensured every person is belted when the “fasten seat belt” sign is lit. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/6 "2013-07-09T01:35:13Z")
Yes, they check people’s belts when the plane readies for take off and landing. But I know that some people do unfasten their belts before the light goes off, typically while the plane is still taxiing. (You can hear the belts being unbuckled even if you can’t see it.) ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/7 "2013-07-09T08:37:05Z")
Yes. I’ve even seen light comedy involving people standing up too soon. In that case, the plane had not yet reached its final spot, gave a small forward lurch, and… _plunk_ _plunk_ _plunk_ _plunk_ _plunk_ _plunk_ About 50 people found themselves sprawled on the floor, noone hurt. Those who actually paid attention to the sign had a pretty good laugh. I cannot remember ever hearing or seeing anyone remove the belts before the actual landing though. Maybe the girls were sleeping, and the cabin crew didn’t look as hard as they should have. Usually the crew get pretty personal about checking the belt, but I’ve been on a few flights where they only gave a glancing look. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vegetable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Space\_Vegetable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vegetable)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/8 "2013-07-09T10:20:02Z")
Do we know yet where in the plane they were sitting? If they weren’t by the big hole at the tail, but in the middle of the plane, it’s more plausible that the reason they wound up on the runway was they were somehow not buckled. I haven’t seen any statement so far about whether or not they were buckled. Presumably the NTSB will report that eventually (though perhaps not anytime soon). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/9 "2013-07-09T11:30:07Z")
> [@Space\_Vegetable](#): > > Do we know yet where in the plane they were sitting? They were sitting in the very back of the airplane. Yes, by the big hole. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/10 "2013-07-09T11:46:44Z")
Regarding the flight attendants (female flight attendants are still referred to in Korea as _스튜어디스/stewardess_), the competition for that job is incredibly intense. University graduates pay to attend stewardess cram schools, paying quite a hefty fee for those cram schools with higher percentages of graduates who make it just into the training phase of an airline’s flight attendant program. [This article](http://www.alamogordonews.com/news/ci_23617437/young-female-and-ambitious-maybe-you-can-be) is pretty informative. With what the applicants have to go through, and training, more training, and even more training after they’re hired, it’s really not a surprise that they’re pretty darn good at their job. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/11 "2013-07-10T04:08:25Z")
In my 5 years in China I have flown with many Chinese people. Many of them seem to be resistant to wear their seatbelt during any part of a flight, and if they do wear their seltbelt they unbuckle it as the plane touches down. It is very sad that the girls got killed, but it would not surprise me at all if they were not wearing their seatbelts. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/12 "2013-07-10T07:23:26Z")
It was revealed today that two flight attendants were also ejected from the airplane. I’m sure they were wearing their seat belts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/13 "2013-07-10T23:27:09Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > It was revealed today that two flight attendants were also ejected from the airplane. I’m sure they were wearing their seat belts. What makes you so sure? And if they were wearing their seat belt, how did they get separated from their seat? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/14 "2013-07-11T00:16:51Z")
I believe in today’s briefing the NTSB said that three flight attendants were ejected from the plane, and one or two more were trapped by an emergency slide that opened in the cabin, instead of outside. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/15 "2013-07-11T00:18:03Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > What makes you so sure? > > And if they were wearing their seat belt, how did they get separated from their seat? Jump seats might not be fastened all that securely. At they very least, they’re not as physically heavy as a row of two or three or five full size seats bolted together. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/16 "2013-07-11T15:14:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Jump seats might not be fastened all that securely. At they very least, they’re not as physically heavy as a row of two or three or five full size seats bolted together. Aren’t the flight attendant seats usually located at the rear and front of the plane? Considering where and how the plane came apart, it would not surprise me if entire seating sections were ejected from the rear of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/17 "2013-07-11T20:15:51Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > What makes you so sure? > > And if they were wearing their seat belt, how did they get separated from their seat? Flight attendants are trained professionals who can be disciplined for not following rules. Not fastening one’s seat belt during takeoff or landing would be a serious breach of safety regulations. It’s hard for me to imagine a single flight attendant doing something this reckless and stupid, let alone more than one. As for the second question, it was revealed yesterday that the flight attendants were thrown out of the airplane seats and all. Also, it turns out this happened to three flight attendants, not two (as had been previously reported). [Here is the story.](http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_23633552/sfo-crash-coroner-identifies-girl-who-may-be) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/18 "2013-07-11T20:27:32Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Flight attendants are trained professionals who can be disciplined for not following rules. Not fastening one’s seat belt during takeoff or landing would be a serious breach of safety regulations. It’s hard for me to imagine a single flight attendant doing something this reckless and stupid, let alone more than one. A flight attendant fastening his/her seatbelt also serves as a role model, making their job easier; it’s much harder to convince passengers to fasten their seatbelts when any member of the crew is not wearing theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/19 "2013-07-11T23:02:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Yes, they check people’s belts when the plane readies for take off and landing. But I know that some people do unfasten their belts before the light goes off, typically while the plane is still taxiing. (You can hear the belts being unbuckled even if you can’t see it.) Even if the flight attendants did diligent checks, they were seated at this time and couldn’t prevent someone from unbuckling. I can imagine someone unbuckling to get a better view, especially since they were just about landed and supposedly safe to a naive flier. I’ve seen news stories saying one might have been unbuckled, but we won’t know for sure until the NTSB report. I’ve never heard anyone unbuckling until the plane has slowed, certainly not while still in the air. But I don’t fly near many 16-year olds either. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987/20 "2013-07-12T05:40:12Z")
Considering the plane rolled up on a wingtip 30 to 50 feet in the air and then slammed down while turning 180 degrees - I would suggest that anyone without a seatbelt on is lucky to be alive. If your seat is ejected from the plane with you in it, then I sure hope it lands backside down, or you’d be toast with a squashed head too. It seems to me from the pictures that the tail separated back of the passenger compartment, possibly where the galley was (hence the stewardess dislocation issue). If you’re strapped to a wall that suddenly becomes the front wall of a large chunk of flying debris, then lucky to be alive is an operative expression. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-2-girls-that-died-on-the-sfo-flight-seat-belted/662987.md?page=2)