# Were The Chinese The First To Discover Australia **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625 "2013-12-18T05:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/1 "2013-12-18T05:29:57Z")
I heard someone talking about this the other day. I had never heard this so I googled around a bit and found some information. Most arguments ‘for’ were: > [@](#): > > Aboriginal paintings depict Chinese junks…Ancient Chinese writings describing apparent Kangaroos. However, I’m not really good at determining which sites are legit and which ones are sensational. Anyone know if the early Chinese explorers made it to Australia? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/2 "2013-12-18T06:54:36Z")
We have clear evidence that Indonesian Makassan traders were trading with Aboriginal tribes in Arnhem land in the 1600’s, perhaps as early as 1640. > **[Makassan contact with Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makassan_contact_with_Australia)** > > Makassar people from the region of Sulawesi in Indonesia began visiting the coast of Northern Australia sometime around the middle of the 18th century, first in the Kimberley region, and some decades later in Arnhem Land. They were men who collected and processed trepang (also known as sea cucumber), a marine invertebrate prized for its culinary value generally and for its supposed medicinal properties in Chinese markets. The term Makassan (or Macassan) is generally used to apply to all The c... And then there is the coins that have been found on Minchabar island that date from the 10th-14th century (but possibly from a wrecked boat in the 16th century). [http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/did-the-african-coins-found-in-australia-come-from-a-wrecked-arab-dhow#page1](http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/did-the-african-coins-found-in-australia-come-from-a-wrecked-arab-dhow#page1) If theres any actual evidence for earlier contact than that with Chinese or Arab traders I’d like to see it. Note that the rock art and pictures of “kangaroos” can be explained. \*) The rock art is actually of Makassan boats, which look very similar to chinese junks •) various wallabies (which resemble small kangaroos) are found in Papua New Guinea which had pre-european contact with Indonesian arabic traders, so images or an actual live wallaby could have been traded to the chinese by Arabic traders. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/3 "2013-12-18T10:20:18Z")
Australia isn’t really very remote from Asia. I don’t know if it needed to be discovered, it was just another lump of land sitting there amongst the bits they regularly visited. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/4 "2013-12-18T10:43:01Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Australia isn’t really very remote from Asia. I don’t know if it needed to be discovered, it was just another lump of land sitting there amongst the bits they regularly visited. Um no. There was established trade routes by Arab traders down to Indonesia and through to China itself in the 11th century. Australia wasn’t on those trade routes, and is a fair way off them. Gavin Menzies claims that people from a 1421 Chinese expedition spent several months in Australia and constructed settlements at Eden in NSW and Gympie in Queensland. Except there is no archeological evidence that’s been found of those settlements. The Chinese certainly had the technological capability to build ships capable of sailing to Australia in 1421, but as far as I know there is no physical evidence to prove that they actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/5 "2013-12-18T10:43:27Z")
One of the more impressive things about Luís Vaz de Torres’ transit of what is now the Torres Straight in 1606 is that he managed not to see Australia, despite it only being 150km away. I would certainly expect traders from the East Indian Archipelago to have made landfall in Australia well before the Europeans showed up because it simply wasn’t that far away. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if a couple of Chinese ships, heading to the Malay Peninsula or elsewhere in the East Indies ended up in Cape York or elsewhere in what is now the Top End of the Northern Territory, either by accident or design. However, the lack of evidence for regular or repeated visits - assuming they visited at all in the first place, of couirse - suggests either the Chinese didn’t find anything worthwhile (or anyone to trade with), or didn’t complete the return journey back to anywhere they could tell anyone about this other land they just discovered. ---
**Author:** ![mick-au](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@mick-au](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mick-au)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/6 "2013-12-18T11:41:21Z")
Though there are many beautiful areas in Central Australia I have begun to doubt the theory (I was the only believer) that Central Australia is the site of the Garden of Eden. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/7 "2013-12-18T13:18:09Z")
Well yes, and also, Australia was never actually isolated. There is strong evidence that there was continuous cultural transfer and trade between Papua New Guinea and Cape York via the Torres Straight islander communities. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/8 "2013-12-18T13:30:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Um no. There was established trade routes by Arab traders down to Indonesia and through to China itself in the 11th century. Australia wasn’t on those trade routes, and is a fair way off them. How could they miss it? A great big place like that just a few hundred miles off to the south. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/9 "2013-12-18T14:22:54Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > How could they miss it? A great big place like that just a few hundred miles off to the south. Weird. Europeans didn’t sail very far south along the coast of Africa until the 1400s. Back then, most people didn’t explore just for the sake of exploring. If there wasn’t a prospect of trade in that direction, there was no reason to go there. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/10 "2013-12-18T16:15:04Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I heard someone talking about this the other day. I had never heard this so I googled around a bit and found some information. Most arguments ‘for’ were: > However, I’m not really good at determining which sites are legit and which ones are sensational. > > Anyone know if the early Chinese explorers made it to Australia? Sarcastically speaking, I think the Aborigines were the first to discover Australia … now who the first non-aborigines were was probably the Polynesians, followed by the Chinese and Arab traders. Maybe a rephrasing as the first ‘civilized’ for a certain value of civilization. I really hate the whole Euro/Sino centric world view. The Aborigines weren’t lost, they knew where they were and were perfectly happy without anybody else :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/11 "2013-12-18T16:26:56Z")
It seems very likely that the Chinese or Arab traders were the first non-aboriginies to discover Australia, but proof so far is lacking. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/12 "2013-12-18T16:46:22Z")
See, I think we need to define ‘discover’ as just not bumping into and forgetting or being shipwrecked, but getting the discovery back to the homeland and having it recorded or a response, etc. This allows us to leave out native settlers from pre-history, etc, also. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/13 "2013-12-18T17:07:27Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Sarcastically speaking, I think the Aborigines were the first to discover Australia … “discover” has several meanings: From Merriam-Webster. > [@](#): > > dis·cov·er verb \dis-ˈkə-vər > : to see, find, or become aware of (something) for the first time > > : to show the presence of (something hidden or difficult to see) : to make (something) known > > : to learn or find out (something surprising or unexpected) The aborigines were the first to discover Australia in the first sense. However, since they never spread the word to anyone else, they didn’t discover it in the second sense. Indonesians, assuming they returned home to tell about it, were the first to discover Australia in the second sense. Europeans were the first to discover Australia on a global scale - to make its existence known throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/14 "2013-12-18T18:13:37Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/15 "2013-12-18T18:19:56Z")
In reality I suspect that the “discoverer” had to plant a flag claiming it for his country (or his financial backers) and go back to register the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/16 "2013-12-18T18:41:02Z")
Australia has always been a part of China. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/17 "2013-12-19T00:33:07Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > How could they miss it? A great big place like that just a few hundred miles off to the south. Weird. A few hundred miles is not close. V[iewing distance from the top of a 100’ mast](http://www.dinodiver.com/html/how_far_can_you_see_.html)is just 11.4 nautical miles. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/18 "2013-12-19T06:37:42Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > A few hundred miles is not close. V[iewing distance from the top of a 100’ mast](http://www.dinodiver.com/html/how_far_can_you_see_.html)is just 11.4 nautical miles. But there are clouds and currents that would presumably indicate a land mass, and I would’ve thought people of South East Asia visiting with stories about it. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/19 "2013-12-19T12:28:10Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > But there are clouds and currents that would presumably indicate a land mass, and I would’ve thought people of South East Asia visiting with stories about it. As mentioned above, there was continuous contact from Papua New Guinea with the Torres Strait Islands and the Torres Strait Islanders knew of the existence of Australia. But the tribal groups of Papua New Guinea were isolated from the other Indonesian trading cultures and didn’t have much contact with them. The sea-faring trading cultures of South East Asia proper were much further west in the Molucca’s and Sulawesi. It’s over 2000 km from there to the nearest Australian coastline. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-chinese-the-first-to-discover-australia/676625/20 "2013-12-19T12:40:55Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In reality I suspect that the “discoverer” had to plant a flag claiming it for his country (or his financial backers) and go back to register the claim. Do you have a flag? No flag, no country.