# Were the constellations closer to the images/figures they represent in ancient times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353 "2013-12-15T03:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/21 "2013-12-17T19:48:43Z")
ISTR that “asterisms” is also the term of choice for a subset of stars within a larger constellation that form something recognizable (for various values of “recognizable”) themselves. Like the Big Dipper: it’s not properly a constellation, but rather an asterism within Ursa Major. Same with the Little Dipper: not a constellation, but an asterism in Ursa Minor. Same thing for Sagittarius’ aforementioned teapot, or the tiny little “wagon” of stars in the Pleiades. Interesting fact: the stars that make up the Big Dipper asterism are themselves mostly gravitationally bound together, and are close enough to us to look widely spaced apart. They’re mostly moving through space together, so the larger shape of the Big Dipper generally won’t change much, even after millenia. (There’s a couple stars in there that aren’t part of the gravitationally bound group and are moving their own directions.) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/22 "2013-12-17T20:02:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Scorpio has a “J” shape, like a scorpion with its curved stinger-tail. You mean Scorpius. 😉 Scorpius is pretty easy to see a scorpion in, but may have once been even easier. Two of the brightest stars in Libra at Scorpius’s “head” are named Zubeneschamali, (“northern claw”) and Zubenelgenubi (“southern claw”) in Arabic, from ancient times when Libra was sometimes viewed as part of Scorpius. So the scorpion once had claws. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/23 "2013-12-17T20:34:10Z")
An asterism need not be confined to one constellation: The Summer Triangle, for instance, consists of the brightest star of each of three different constellations. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/24 "2013-12-17T20:40:38Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > You mean Scorpius. 😉 > > Scorpius is pretty easy to see a scorpion in, but may have once been even easier. Two of the brightest stars in Libra at Scorpius’s “head” are named Zubeneschamali, (“northern claw”) and Zubenelgenubi (“southern claw”) in Arabic, from ancient times when Libra was sometimes viewed as part of Scorpius. So the scorpion once had claws. 🙂 Some other cultures see Scorpius as a snake. There is, in fact, that even in ancient Greece some viewed it as a snake. The snake is also perfectly consistent with that capital J-shape. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/25 "2013-12-17T20:52:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All I know is, the ancient Greeks didn’t have any teapots or ice cream cones, or they would never have called Saggitarius an archer and Boötes a shepherd. I mean, heck, the teapot even has steam coming out of its spout. Boötes is _sooo_ an upside-down necktie. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/26 "2013-12-17T21:06:52Z")
This was claimed in an article I once read: In numerous cultures, in both the eastern and western hemispheres, the seven stars of the Big Dipper are interpreted as a bear being tracked by three hunters - making this, perhaps, the most ancient of all oral traditions. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/27 "2013-12-17T21:52:34Z")
> [@EdwardLost](#): > > This was claimed in an article I once read: In numerous cultures, in both the eastern and western hemispheres, the seven stars of the Big Dipper are interpreted as a bear being tracked by three hunters - making this, perhaps, the most ancient of all oral traditions. Interesting, though I can’t speak to the veracity of that. Of course, the Big Dipper is an asterism of the full constellation Ursa Major, the Great Bear; I imagine the popularity of the myth is due to Ursa Major being visible to most of the northern hemisphere, due to its proximity to the north pole on the celestial sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/28 "2013-12-17T23:00:15Z")
I expect that the seven stars of the Dipper are recognized as an entity by far more people, and far more cultures, than the entire constellation of Ursa Major. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353/29 "2013-12-18T07:00:14Z")
South Park did a bit on the two-star constellation called “The Crusades” [http://www.southparkstudios-q.mtvi.com/clips/150701/constellations](http://www.southparkstudios-q.mtvi.com/clips/150701/constellations) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-constellations-closer-to-the-images-figures-they-represent-in-ancient-times/676353.md?page=1)