# Were the cops justified in using a robot to blow up the police killing sniper? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531 "2016-07-10T05:12:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/41 "2016-07-10T17:49:32Z")
I would add that early reports suggested multiple shooters and there were reports bombs had been planted across Dallas. With those possibilities in mind, taking the shooter alive - if it was possible without exposing police to further danger - would have allowed for the opportunity of gaining vital data on co-conspirators and bomb locations. I realise it now appears he acted alone and no bombs were planted. Was that known at the point he was killed? TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/42 "2016-07-10T17:55:30Z")
Because sometimes the best solution is to toss in a grenade and move on, but I’m not a patient person. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/43 "2016-07-10T18:08:31Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > I don’t understand the situation the shooter was in. If he was holed up inside a building, unable to escape, no hostages, why was he a continuing danger to others? Sure he could do a ‘Butch and Sundance’ and I would have no qualms if he went down in a hail of fire. But if he was sequestered why not wait it out? > > TCMF-2L Because it’s quite possible he could have picked off a few more cops while he was holed up. Why take the risk? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/44 "2016-07-10T18:09:40Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > Although in a totally inappropriate (in my opinion) way, the Dallas shooter was protesting that when American police engage with black persons of interest they too often appear to simply execute them. > > When the Dallas police engaged him, a black man, they executed him. > > TCMF-2L After he shot 12 cops and 2 civilians, murdering 5 of them. And he indicated he wasn’t finished. I’m sure the cops weren’t concerned with his color by then, just with neutralizing a threat before more people were injured. Remember, these cops were actually doing their job description, keeping the peace and protecting the public. Some of them were actually smiling and posing for pictures with the protestors. The cops in Dallas were the victims of an unprovoked attack and were in no way connected with the cases in Louisiana and Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/45 "2016-07-10T19:38:49Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > “FUCK THE —” > > - **BOOM!** \* That’s the title of the new album by MC Fukdaboom, who grew up in da hood of Hollywood Hills and knows all about ghetto life on Mulholland Drive. In answer to the question: Yes. In answer to **Czarcasm** : Are you fucking serious? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/46 "2016-07-10T20:17:58Z")
> [@Goofus](#): > > What are police dogs for if not situations like this? Great username/post combo! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/47 "2016-07-10T20:26:19Z")
Is he actually a threat to others? Is he literally trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from etc etc. I.e. Zero threat to others, police or otherwise. Then no it’s not justified, talk him down, wait him out. Spend days if that’s what it takes. Take him alive and put him on trial, that’s how things are _supposed_ to work. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/48 "2016-07-10T20:30:48Z")
It’s Dallas, not Deptford Fun City. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/49 "2016-07-10T20:52:47Z")
If anyone seemed like they’d want to go out in a “blaze of glory”…this dude did. I bet if they’d started setting off gas, he’d come out shooting 360 degrees. Plus, he did kill their brothers, for which the penalty will usually be more severe. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/50 "2016-07-10T20:54:27Z")
A point only briefly touched on… Early reports indicated that it was assumed multiple shooters were involved. Police had to be concerned that setting up to wait him out might make them easy targets for any co-conspirators. And then there is the issue that the shooter was reportedly making threats to the police and saying there were explosive devices in the area. Police had know way to know if the threatened explosive devices were real and if the subject had with him the means to detonate them. Eliminating the threat in a timely manner was a good call. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/51 "2016-07-10T22:37:48Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Early reports indicated that it was assumed multiple shooters were involved. Police had to be concerned that setting up to wait him out might make them easy targets for any co-conspirators. :dubious: They all work in the same building. They are no more easy targets where they had him cornered than anywhere else cops congregate. > [@Iggy](#): > > And then there is the issue that the shooter was reportedly making threats to the police and saying there were explosive devices in the area. How does blowing him up change those facts? If anything, keeping him alive makes it easier to ascertain if that is true, and possibly easier to get to them before others got hurt. > [@Iggy](#): > > Police had know way to know if the threatened explosive devices were real and if the subject had with him the means to detonate them. A second ago you were talking about co-conspirators. What makes you think those co-conspirators wouldn’t have detonated them to spite the cops for killing their fellow scumbag? Or the explosives could have been on a timer or a deadman switch. All things it’s harder to figure out once the guy you are talking to is dead. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/52 "2016-07-10T22:42:01Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > Although in a totally inappropriate (in my opinion) way, the Dallas shooter was protesting that when American police engage with black persons of interest they too often appear to simply execute them. > > When the Dallas police engaged him, a black man, they executed him. I think in this particular instance, I would give the cops a pass for killing a black man. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Given that this was a robot designed for handling/dealing with explosives do we in fact know that it was “blown up” or whether it was tough enough to withstand the explosion? [There is a video of it here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fltQHARbS84) Actually, what I heard was they had the robot deliver a charge of C4, similar to what they might use to detonate a bomb or breach a door. So I assume the robot dropped the charge and rolled out before they exploded it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/53 "2016-07-10T22:46:03Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > Is he actually a threat to others? > > Is he literally trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from etc etc. > > I.e. Zero threat to others, police or otherwise. Actually, I don’t recall any details being released about how he was “holed up”. He might well have had a “convenient window” from which to shoot. Do you have a link to where you got the information he was in fact “trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from”? I’d like to read it. Where did you get that information? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/54 "2016-07-10T22:51:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > [There is a video of it here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fltQHARbS84) BS. That’s a video clip from a movie or a music video or something that has absolutely zero to do with what happened in Dallas. Well, thanks for completely discrediting yourself and contributing nothing to either side of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/55 "2016-07-10T23:08:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, I don’t recall any details being released about how he was “holed up”. He might well have had a “convenient window” from which to shoot. Do you have a link to where you got the information he was in fact “trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from”? I’d like to read it. Where did you get that information? I have no such information. Which is of course why I _ **extremely clearly** and unambiguosly_ made it plain I was talking about a scenario where he was in fact “trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from” etc. After which I eliminated any _possible_ confusion with the summary. _I.e. Zero threat to others, police or otherwise._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/56 "2016-07-10T23:10:10Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You have no idea what you’re talking about. Sacrificing a $100,000 robot instead of a $400,000 police officer _saves_ money. No, not at all. If it’s a choice between sending in a robot and sending in a police officer (or a dog) I’d send in the robot. I was trying to point out a problem if sending in robots with bombs becomes the default procedure and replaces the current procedure of a police sniper shooting dangerous suspects when lethal force is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/57 "2016-07-10T23:13:48Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > I have no such information. > > Which is of course why I _ **extremely clearly** and unambiguosly_ made it plain I was talking about a scenario where he was in fact “trapped, no way out, no convenient window to shoot from” etc. > > After which I eliminated any _possible_ confusion with the summary. > > _I.e. Zero threat to others, police or otherwise._ I’d add the obvious “and has no hostages” but otherwise I agree with this. If you have a situation where a suspect is confined and can’t escape or hurt anyone, then the police should just wait him out. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/58 "2016-07-10T23:14:54Z")
> [@Goofus](#): > > What are police dogs for if not situations like this? What - so the gunman could shoot and kill multiple dogs? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/59 "2016-07-10T23:16:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I worry about the bomb squads and trust that has built up around them being tarnished. Before, there were known as life-savers, and their tools were used(and specifically designed) for saving lives. _This_ time, they deliberately used those skills and tools designed to save lives and they took a life. Now that it is known that will cross that line and kill, and that their remote control devices can be used to deliberately kill, will people look at them and their profession in the same light? Their reputation doesn’t matter. When the public needs a bomb squad to defuse a bomb, they’ll call in the bomb squad. They have no other choice. It doesn’t matter how good or bad their reputation is - a bomb situation requires the bomb squad, period. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531/60 "2016-07-10T23:17:39Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A point only briefly touched on… > > Early reports indicated that it was assumed multiple shooters were involved. Police had to be concerned that setting up to wait him out might make them easy targets for any co-conspirators. > > And then there is the issue that the shooter was reportedly making threats to the police and saying there were explosive devices in the area. Police had know way to know if the threatened explosive devices were real and if the subject had with him the means to detonate them. > > Eliminating the threat in a timely manner was a good call. Generally speaking, if you’re not sure what the situation is, that’s a good reason to slow things down not speed them up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-cops-justified-in-using-a-robot-to-blow-up-the-police-killing-sniper/759531.md?page=4)