# Were the engines of the old Volkswagen Beatles (Käfer) located in the front or the back? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169 "2014-10-02T09:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/1 "2014-10-02T09:55:16Z")
Hi, Were the engines of the old Volkswagen Beatles (VW Käfer) located in the front or the back? I remember reading about how unsafe they were because of their weight distribution. But I can’t remember if the engines were in the front or the back. I look forward to your feedback davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/2 "2014-10-02T10:06:07Z")
Rear engine. > **[Volkswagen Beetle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle#mediaviewer/File:K%C3%A4ferk%C3%BChlung.svg)** > > The Volkswagen Beetle—officially the Volkswagen Type 1,\[a\] is an economy car that was manufactured and marketed by the German company Volkswagen (VW) from 1938 until 2003. It has a rear-engine design with a two-door bodystyle and is intended for five occupants (later, Beetles were restricted to four people in some countries). > The need for a people's car (Volkswagen in German), its concept and its functional objectives were formulated by the leader of Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler, who wanted a ch... New Beetles have the engine at the front, and front-wheel drive if not 4wd. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/3 "2014-10-02T10:06:24Z")
The Beatles were a musical group. The VW is called a Beetle. 🙂 I own a 1974 Beetle and the engine is most definitely in the back. The gas tank is in the front. The battery is under the back seat. They were produced this way for decades. A google image search will give you hundreds of pictures of the engine in the back. The engine is air cooled. There’s no radiator. I don’t know why you think they are unsafe because of the weight distribution. They are very small and very light cars. The weight distribution is actually pretty good. The engine puts the weight over the rear wheels which makes them go pretty good in snow and mud and bad weather. As for their overall safety, well, they were designed in the 1930s. What do you expect? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/4 "2014-10-02T10:31:23Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Rear engine. > > [Volkswagen Beetle - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle#mediaviewer/File:K%C3%A4ferk%C3%BChlung.svg) > > New Beetles have the engine at the front, and front-wheel drive if not 4wd. And consequently, they are not really Beetles. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/5 "2014-10-02T10:46:43Z")
The original Beetle was designed by Ferdinand Porsche and prototypes were manufactured by Daimler-Benz. Thanks to Hitler, a factory was built but he then started WW2 so the factory made armaments instead. After the war, it was the British who restarted production and eventually the factory was expanded under Karmann and the cars were produced at Wolfsburg until 1978. The Beetle is the most popular car ever made. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/6 "2014-10-02T13:08:51Z")
Safety on the original Beetle was sketchy for several reasons: - Rear weight bias which could make the car swap ends in an emergency maneuver. - Rear suspension using a “swing arm” design which made the top of the wheels lean in when the car went down on the suspension (and the other way when raised). These large camber changes could make it quite twitchy. - Gas tank mounted in the nose of the car. - Very rudimentary windshield defogging. Having driven a '62 in the winter I’d call it “useless”. It’s made worse by a windshield washer arrangement that was powered by the air in the spare tire. Not only would you soon find yourself with a flat spare, you’d also not have windshield washer at the time you most needed them. Still, as long as you drove it considering its shortcomings, they were surprisingly good cars. Snow/ice traction was amazing due to most of the weight being on the rear (drive) wheels. I made it up hills other cars got stuck on. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/7 "2014-10-02T13:30:06Z")
I owned two Beetles (I’m a slow learner). I had a '72 and a '74, IIRC, in the late 70’s and early 80’s. One of them was a rally model, don’t recall which one. The only thing they had in their favor was that they got better gas mileage than anything else I could afford at the time. They were uncomfortable, twitchy, maintenance intensive, rust-prone shitboxes. Anybody who is nostalgic over the original Beetle either never owned one or is confusing how much they enjoyed being young and stoned with how much they enjoyed the car. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/8 "2014-10-02T13:44:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And consequently, they are not really Beetles. Actually, the original Beetle is the one that isn’t really a Beetle - its official name was the Volkswagen Type 1. VW didn’t use the name Beetle at all until 1967 and even then it was only as a nickname. I think the first official Beetle was the Type 2 that began production in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/9 "2014-10-02T14:34:50Z")
Mine was a '62. No, the windshield washer was not connected to the spare tire an any way. However, the washer did operate on an air pressure system, from a separate compressed air reservoir, which needed to be periodically refilled using a tire pump, with a valve similar to that on a tire. I never experience the problem of the defogger, and I lived in Canada at the time. Nevertheless, winter driving could be an adventure because there was no blower fan for the heating system. The engine generated heat, which was circulated through the car by the intake of air at driving speed – the faster you were going, the faster the heat was blown through the car. A parked VW with the engine running produced no heat at all in the cabin. Another unique characteristic was the absence of a fuel gauge. There was a reserve switch on the gas tank, so when the car ran out of gas, one could switch to the reserve, with about a 4 liter capacity, and drive to a gas station. Otherwise, you just had to mentally remember how far you had driven since the last fill-up. A great deal has been said about the VW’s traction in the snow, which was excellent owing to the weight distribution being over the drive wheels, but there was a limit to the depth of snow. The bottom of a VW was like a toboggan, and if the snow was deeper than the car’s ground clearance, one had no traction at all. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/10 "2014-10-02T14:41:22Z")
I had a 71 Beetle for a couple years and it was back when I was young and thought I was a rally car driver. That Beetle could seriously oversteer and if you weren’t careful you’d be pointing the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/11 "2014-10-02T15:46:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Actually, the original Beetle is the one that isn’t really a Beetle - its official name was the Volkswagen Type 1. VW didn’t use the name Beetle at all until 1967 and even then it was only as a nickname. I think the first official Beetle was the Type 2 that began production in 1970. Type 2 was the bus. Are you thinking of the Super Beetle? ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/12 "2014-10-02T15:48:18Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Mine was a '62. No, the windshield washer was not connected to the spare tire an any way. However, the washer did operate on an air pressure system, from a separate compressed air reservoir, which needed to be periodically refilled using a tire pump, with a valve similar to that on a tire. Maybe a difference in North America models? The one I drove (my moms) was a Euro car and it definitely had a hose that connected to the spare tire valve. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/13 "2014-10-02T15:50:24Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I had a 71 Beetle for a couple years and it was back when I was young and thought I was a rally car driver. That Beetle could seriously oversteer and if you weren’t careful you’d be pointing the wrong way. I never did that with my Beetle, but I had a Renault Dauphine, with a similar rear-mounted engine over the drive wheels, and I startled myself doing that once on dry pavement. The front was so light on the Dauphine that three guys could lift the front end into a tight parking space. Actually, two guys and my wife, and I’m not sure how much help she was. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/14 "2014-10-02T15:57:13Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Mine was a '62. No, the windshield washer was not connected to the spare tire an any way. However, the washer did operate on an air pressure system, from a separate compressed air reservoir, which needed to be periodically refilled using a tire pump, with a valve similar to that on a tire. Mine was a '68. American model - maybe the Canadian model was different?. The windshield washer was definitely connected to the spare. No doubt about it. > [@jtur88](#): > > I never experience the problem of the defogger, and I lived in Canada at the time. Nevertheless, winter driving could be an adventure because there was no blower fan for the heating system. The engine generated heat, which was circulated through the car by the intake of air at driving speed – the faster you were going, the faster the heat was blown through the car. A parked VW with the engine running produced no heat at all in the cabin. Heat was pathetic. I never managed to get the interior anything close to what you’d call _warm_. Really. The heat was a joke. > [@jtur88](#): > > Another unique characteristic was the absence of a fuel gauge. There was a reserve switch on the gas tank, so when the car ran out of gas, one could switch to the reserve, with about a 4 liter capacity, and drive to a gas station. Otherwise, you just had to mentally remember how far you had driven since the last fill-up. Mine had a fuel gauge. Maybe it came in sometime between 1962 and 1968? Still, this wouldn’t have bothered me that much – I put in a few hundred thousand miles on motorcycles without fuel gauges. I am (and was back then) pretty used to keeping track of how far I’d gone since the last fill-up. Still, it was easy on the bike – open up the tank and look. Would have been tougher on the VW. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/15 "2014-10-02T16:05:12Z")
Many of the objections so far in this thread refer to the earliest models or a lack of understanding of the car’s design. By 1965, the windshield was curved (which made the wipers work better), the wipers were 2 speed electric, and the heater had an independent fan. And AM/FM radios, solid sunroofs and air conditioning were options! The car got far better mileage than most US cars, 30-35MPG for highway driving. As far as oversteer, some of us _liked_ oversteer. The problem was that most US drivers had grown up with heavy, understeering behemoths and didn’t know how to handle the different feel and weight distribution. Once you learn, it can be a good thing. A beetle with chains was like a tractor in the snow! ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/16 "2014-10-02T16:09:25Z")
Not a Beetle, but my wife’s car, a 1969 which she has driven since 1974, is a VW Squareback (VW type 3). It has all the VW quirks - lousy heating and defrosting, windshield washer powered by air in the spare, and definitely has the engine in the back. She loves the car, and won’t consider driving anything else. The thing has always been garaged, and, no exaggeration, looks brand new (all white with lots of sparkling chrome). It’s quite an attention getter when on the road or in a parking lot, which my wife definitely enjoys. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/17 "2014-10-02T16:11:15Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Type 2 was the bus. Are you thinking of the Super Beetle? Not that Type 2. The second generation Beetle was also called “Type 2”, for reasons that elude me. It was a purely internal designation like BMW’s Exxx model numbers. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/18 "2014-10-02T16:35:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > By 1965, the windshield was curved (which made the wipers work better), the wipers were 2 speed electric, and the heater had an independent fan. The curved windshield was introduced in 1973, not 1965. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/19 "2014-10-02T16:58:31Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The curved windshield was introduced in 1973, not 1965. Yep - my 71 had a flat windshield. Was easier to use the scraper on the inside while driving down the road. Better than turning the “heater” on and carbon monoxide’ing yourself from a cracked heat exchanger. And I didn’t say I disliked the oversteering. It was just something you had to learn to deal with. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169/20 "2014-10-02T17:57:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > They were uncomfortable, twitchy, maintenance intensive, rust-prone shitboxes. Anybody who is nostalgic over the original Beetle either never owned one or is confusing how much they enjoyed being young and stoned with how much they enjoyed the car. God yes! I owned a '64, '65 and a '70 I think it was. The main one was the '65 and the other two were only brief purchases, mainly for parts to keep the '65 going. It was a Baja bug and just a lot of fun when running. You HAD to travel with tools and ideally a copy of “How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive for the Complete Idiot” and some spare parts. The throttle cable had a tendency for the little nub on the cable to break off right where it connected to the gas pedal, leaving you with a little bit of wire sticking out and no way to drive the car. Once I was way up in the mountains and the nub broke off the cable end. I had to fold the gas pedal back flat, grab the little remaining piece of cable that stuck out of the tube with a small vise-grip, and then I took my shoes off and held the vise-grip between my toes and pulled, not pushed, to operate the throttle. For about 15 miles. Thereafter I always traveled with a spare cable. The heat and defoggers relied on air being pushed forward by the engine fan through channels on the floor that might eventually produce some air up front, if everything was still sealed tightly, which it wasn’t, and if the heat channels weren’t plugged with rust, which they were. Funky little ceramic fuses wrapped with a piece of wire! Fuck! The valves would tighten up and you had to adjust them every 2000 miles or so or you would risk burning a valve. The gap had to be opened up to make sure the valve would fully seat. And the battery under the seat where it could, and would, either rot a hole in the floorboard from battery acid and corrosion, or just short out and blow up when some unlucky soul sat in the back seat. They **were** easy to work on and I rebuilt several engines by taking them out, taking the heavy shit off, carrying it into the house and rebuilding it in on the table. The engine block/case split in half and you could rebuild an entire engine with the tools in a basic tool box. It was a good way to learn when I was young, poor and stupid. And the Baja was fun in the mud and snow. I put real big meaty tires on the back and was at the top of the mountain one day playing in the snow. A Toyota truck was coming down the road and there was about 3 feet or more of snow. He couldn’t get out of the ruts on the road without getting stuck, so I held up my hand to say “wait a minute” and plowed up the bank and buried the car in the snow and let him pass. He stopped to ask if I needed any help to get out and I said “nope” and backed right back onto the road. Fun times. I gave away my last VW parts about 30 years ago and told my family that if I ever made noises about buying another VW that they were to do a family intervention or have me put on a mental health hold at the hospital. Still dream about the '65 Baja sometimes though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-engines-of-the-old-volkswagen-beatles-kafer-located-in-the-front-or-the-back/700169.md?page=2)