# Were the genocidal actions of the Old Testament God justifiable?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-genocidal-actions-of-the-old-testament-god-justifiable/360579>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [June 13, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-genocidal-actions-of-the-old-testament-god-justifiable/360579 "2006-06-13T16:28:16Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-genocidal-actions-of-the-old-testament-god-justifiable/360579/61 "2006-06-14T17:53:52Z")

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[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]  
But most people would disagree with you that morality is an aesthetic without objective value. To make the opposing argument to yours, an action is either right or wrong, regardless of your opinion on it. So it’s not a matter of God deciding what’s right for you…it’s a matter of God deciding what’s right, period, and then you either submitting to the will of God or not.  
[/QUOTE]

That still leaves the opther problems I mentioned. First, that there is no way to KNOW God’s wil and second, that the decision to SUBMIT to God’s will is still dependent on an autocratic moral choice that it’s the “right” thing to do. There is no way to surrender moral authority to God without first exercising one’s OWN moral authority. Ultimately, all moral choices are based on each individual’s own personal authority and nothing else. The choice to submit to God still has to derive from a personal moral aesthetic. There’s no way out of it. You always have to make your first choice all by yourself.

And I would still reiterate my other point that if people don’t already know right from wrong WITHOUT submitting to God, then their choice about whether to do so has no moral value anyway. It can’t be wrong NOT to do it unless you KNOW it’s wrong not to do it.

You can’t make moral choices unless you already know what is moral. If I already know what is moral, then I am obligated to reject choices which I know would be _im_moral. That includes submitting to genocidal gods.

If I am (hypothetically) in error as to what is moral and immoral, then I don’t know right from wrong and so _can’t_ make a moral choice anyway. That’s ok, because it also means I’m not morally accountable. Rejecting what I feel to be an immoral God is win-win for me. My choice is either morally correct or morally unaccountable. I’m gold either way. I cannot logically be morally wrong.

If on the other hand I make a choice to _submit_ to a God which I feel is immoral, then I’m either going to be morally wrong (making a choice which I “know” is immoral) or I’m going to be accidentally correct, but still not morally “right” because my correctness would have no moral value if it was made in moral ignorance.

Therefore, the only chance I have to be morally right is to follow my own conscience.

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