# Were The Slaves "Lucky"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818 "2009-10-23T02:47:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/61 "2009-10-24T04:51:36Z")
I wonder if I can interest The Onion in a headline: “White People Demand Reparations From West Africa For Selling Shoddy Slaves, Ruining Cotton Harvest”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/62 "2009-10-24T06:54:51Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > So in your complete stupidity . . . . Let’s leave the name-calling for the BBQ Pit. Leave it out of Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/63 "2009-10-24T16:49:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And then there’s the fact that slaves are part of society too. If you want to talk about how much slavery benefited or hurt society, you have to include the slaves in your calculation. Yes, but they only count for three fifths, remember. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/64 "2009-10-24T21:51:59Z")
Think of it this way: The slaves that made it to the USA alive were perhaps luckier than those that died in transit. But they were unlucky, in that their communities were attacked & sold into slavery by neighboring communities. The success of the slave trade is intertwined with the dominance of African tribes that conquered & enslaved their neighbors–the success of unneighborliness, kidnapping, & war. So much of Africa today is culturally & politically descended from those who were slavers. And the continent is worse off for it. Were the slaves “lucky”? A few. Would they, & Africa in general, have been better off without the slave trade? I think so. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/65 "2009-10-24T23:10:35Z")
I’m beginning to wonder if Curtis LeMay ever returns to any of his “shocking” threads. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/66 "2009-10-25T01:28:04Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > No no no, you don’t understand. Since black people did it to other black people, and at some separate point in time completely unconnected with the current state of affairs of our culture white people did it to other white people, we’re all even-steven now! It’s time to move on and let bygones be bygones, don’t you think? They should pay us for the boat fare. We took them from a terrifying place where wars were common and brought them to a land of milk and honey bunches of oats. We taught them a trade. Yep ,they sure are ungrateful. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/67 "2009-10-25T01:39:16Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The slaves that made it to the USA alive were perhaps luckier than those that died in transit. And even that’s debatable… ---
**Author:** ![hamhawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee7513/32.png) [@hamhawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hamhawk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/68 "2009-10-30T14:23:03Z")
Considering that the average welfare recipient today lives better than any king or queen did 100 or 200 years ago,guarenteed food,a/c,heat,cable tv,not to mention hundreds of millions of dollars in college grant money,job training etc etc. I did a quick search and in South Africa the 20-39 age range has a 39% hiv infection rate…I’d say they are better off here than Africa,now.just my 2 cents ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/69 "2009-10-30T15:41:41Z")
> [@hamhawk](#): > > Considering that the average welfare recipient today lives better than any king or queen did 100 or 200 years ago,guarenteed food,a/c,heat,cable tv,not to mention hundreds of millions of dollars in college grant money,job training etc etc. I did a quick search and in South Africa the 20-39 age range has a 39% hiv infection rate…I’d say they are better off here than Africa,now.just my 2 cents I think the vast majority of slaves would disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![DoubleS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@DoubleS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleS)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/70 "2009-10-30T16:15:09Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I think the vast majority of slaves would disagree with you. And I **know** the vast majority of Africans would also disagree. True living in America has it perks. The large fuel guzzlers, the large choice of consumer goods, guaranteed electricity and water, government subsidies and high wages. However I think most Americans ignore the reality in Africa. Middle class workers in Africa are generally paid less than American middle class workers when translated into American dollars and American lifestyles. However middle class workers in Africa do not live in America, neither do they live American lifestyles. They eat well, drink rather too much, usually own a piece of land somewhere and drive a refurbished Japanese used vehicle. Many of them love their lives and would not exchange it for the American way of life. Outside of CNN much of Africa is peaceful, in spite of despots and dishonest leaders, many who are propped up by the very people who champion democracy. We have civil wars and misery, America has violent neighborhoods and flyby shootings. To many living in some parts of downtown America is worse than living in civil wars in Africa. Saying that somebody would have, many years ago, given up his liberty to have his descendants live in this kind of society as opposed to building a nice society in Africa is plain droppings of a diseased male ungulate. Many of these people could have lived to create a society that, maybe, could have rivaled what is in America today. Many of the civil wars are fueled by the scramble for resources in Africa by people out of Africa. Perhaps if the “bought” people had stayed they could have prevented this struggle and instead utilised these resources for the good of their people. Areas were depopulated and taken over by “missionaries” and “educators” and people bringing “civilisation” to the “savages” in the “vast unpopulated” areas of Africa. Resources were looted to feed growing economies in the west without due course being given to the people living in those areas. Then when it became politically incorrect to own colonies they were abandoned without adequate preparation and forced to toe the line so they could live in a “modern” economy and “compete” with other “modern” economies. Nope. I doubt the enslaved were lucky. And neither were the ones they left behind. ---
**Author:** ![DoubleS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@DoubleS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleS)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/71 "2009-10-30T16:20:48Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > No no no, you don’t understand. Since black people did it to other black people, and at some separate point in time completely unconnected with the current state of affairs of our culture white people did it to other white people, we’re all even-steven now! It’s time to move on and let bygones be bygones, don’t you think? Perhaps some black people should do it to some white people, just to make it all even-steven, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/72 "2009-10-30T16:27:23Z")
> [@hamhawk](#): > > Considering that the average welfare recipient today lives better than any king or queen did 100 or 200 years ago,guarenteed food,a/c,heat,cable tv,not to mention hundreds of millions of dollars in college grant money,job training etc etc. I did a quick search and in South Africa the 20-39 age range has a 39% hiv infection rate…I’d say they are better off here than Africa,now.just my 2 cents If you get HIV in South Africa, the government is mandated to provide you with free ARV drugs. What’s the equivalent medical situation if I get HIV in the States, black or white? And I doubt very much the “average welfare recipient” in the States lives better than royalty 100 years ago, plus cite for the cable and a/c being part of the package. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/73 "2009-10-30T16:33:24Z")
Well, in a certain sense it’s true; the average welfare recipient has access to more information (via the internet) and better medicine (via Medicaid) than anyone did 100 or 200 years ago. Plus they probably own a car and a TV, and have air conditioning. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/74 "2009-10-30T23:47:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, in a certain sense it’s true; the average welfare recipient has access to more information (via the internet) and better medicine (via Medicaid) than anyone did 100 or 200 years ago. Plus they probably own a car and a TV, and have air conditioning. And most present-day Africans (even those in cities) probably do not any of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/75 "2009-10-31T00:00:09Z")
I think you might want to read the whole thread before making assumptions about the standard of living in Africa- and as far as the internet, where do you think 419 scams come from? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/76 "2009-10-31T00:14:15Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And most present-day Africans (even those in cities) probably do not any of these things. Oh, you’re back to contribute to your own thread; looks like you finally answered **ladyfoxfyre** ’s [question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11700405&postcount=65). As for your comment, I wonder if most African-Americans had such things a generation ago; I know [the slaves who were worked to death in America](http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/slave_island_02.shtml) didn’t. That is, if they were lucky enough to live long enough to be worked to death. As many pointed out, a lot died _en route_. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/77 "2009-10-31T01:09:34Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And most present-day Africans (even those in cities) \*\*probably \*\*do not any of these things. Cite, especially considering the comments in the thread made by those who’ve \*experienced \*living in Africa? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/78 "2009-10-31T01:29:23Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Cite, especially considering the comments in the thread made by those who’ve \*experienced \*living in Africa? :rolleyes: Statistics show that ownership of consumer goods are lower in Africa than among black in America. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/79 "2009-10-31T01:55:38Z")
Statistics show that black people are made of cheese. Oooh! This is fun! You guys, get in here and allude to imaginary statistics! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818/80 "2009-10-31T02:18:35Z")
Well my statistic has basis in fact. For instance in the _World Almanac Book and Book of Facts 2006_ TV ownership rates in the USA is 844 per 1,000 people. Compared to Botswana a compratively wealthy African country which has 21 TV sets per thousand people. The black lifespan in America is 72. 3 years while the African lifespan in 50.5 years! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-the-slaves-lucky/514818.md?page=5)