# Were there any plans to invade the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478 "2008-04-15T19:22:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/21 "2008-04-16T01:29:27Z")
[Does pre-WW1 count?](http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa050902a.htm) > [@](#): > > Two of the most sensational strategies were created, at the behest of the Kaiser, by a naval officer called Eberhard von Mantey and then probably refined by Admiral Tirpitz. One, dating from 1897, planned a sea-borne invasion of Norfolk, Hampton and the Newport News, areas of America that were considered particularly vulnerable. The plan was changed in 1898 when American victories over Spain left the U.S. in control of Cuba, a region which Wilhem II coveted: the files show his desire to build a military base there. The revised plan called, not for a naval blockade or sea battle to aid in the capture of Cuba, but for a huge invasion of New York and the surrounding region. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/22 "2008-04-16T01:30:13Z")
I’m picking at my memory and this is off the top of my head but in Ken Burns’ documentary “The War” wasn’t there an anecdote about a German that a soldier happened to run into who knew everything about the soldier’s hometown because he was schooled for the occupation after the war? I think there was some plan in place but it wasn’t on the immediate agenda. I do believe that, if for some reason, D-Day had failed it would have been negotiation time and even if it had not led to an occupation that it would have given Germany economic dominance over North America. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/23 "2008-04-16T01:38:16Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] I was just wondering if there were any plans or scenarios, say found in German bunkers after WWII or something? . [/QUOTE] I recently saw on TV an amrican-made documentary about WWII. A veteran mentionned in it that he discovered that a german prisonner was familiar with the location of his (american) city and even knew the names of the little rivers flowing in the town. When asked how he knew these things, he answered, according to the veteran, that he had received training in the administration of occupied territories. Which would imply that somebody had envisionned the possibility of a german occupation of the USA. How reliable are these statements, I wouldn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/24 "2008-04-16T01:41:43Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] I recently saw on TV an amrican-made documentary about WWII. A veteran mentionned in it that he discovered that a german prisonner was familiar with the location of his (american) city and even knew the names of the little rivers flowing in the town. When asked how he knew these things, he answered, according to the veteran, that he had received training in the administration of occupied territories. Which would imply that somebody had envisionned the possibility of a german occupation of the USA. How reliable are these statements, I wouldn’t know. [/QUOTE] That’s what I was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/25 "2008-04-16T02:52:44Z")
The Japanese invaded the Aleutians in 1942. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/26 "2008-04-16T03:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] [Does pre-WW1 count?](http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa050902a.htm) [/QUOTE] There’s a alternative history book by Robert Conroy called 1901 that dealt with that situation. It’s ok. Read it if you’re an alt. history fan, but don’t rush out and buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Hirundo82](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@Hirundo82](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirundo82)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/27 "2008-04-16T03:27:15Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Wasn’t the British Invasion in the 1960’s? [/QUOTE] Yes, but only once, and only for somewhere between 15 and 30 minutes IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/28 "2008-04-16T03:37:14Z")
I think this is sort of relevant to the OP: > **[Zimmermann Telegram](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerman_telegram)** > > The Zimmermann Telegram (or Zimmermann Note or Zimmerman Cable) was a secret diplomatic communication issued from the German Foreign Office in January 1917 that proposed a military alliance between the German Empire and Mexico if the United States entered World War I against Germany. With Germany's aid, Mexico would recover Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico. The telegram was intercepted by British intelligence. > Revelation of the contents enraged Americans, especially after German State Secretary ... As Wikipedia says, Mexico probably figured that taking up Germany’s offer was a fast way to get stomped again. So, all it accomplished was to get the U.S. into WWI that much quicker - the opposite of the intended result. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/29 "2008-04-16T03:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Wasn’t the British Invasion in the 1960’s? [/QUOTE] Yes, and it’s been quite successful. Look at how this insidious influence has softened up our tender youth for the actual military invasion! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/30 "2008-04-16T03:52:25Z")
I seem to recall something about post-invasion plans by the Nazis for the US. Specifically, for Goering to be made military governor of New York City or state among other items. Has anyone else heard of this? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/31 "2008-04-16T04:39:59Z")
Lots of U-Boats buzzed the east coast to interrupt shipping, and a few snuck up the Chesapeake Bay. Hausner’s, a restaurant in Baltimore, was reputed to be a favorite spot for German sailors “on liberty.” Never enough for an occupying force, but this was an invasion of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/32 "2008-04-16T04:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=Krokodil] Lots of U-Boats buzzed the east coast to interrupt shipping, and a few snuck up the Chesapeake Bay. Hausner’s, a restaurant in Baltimore, was reputed to be a favorite spot for German sailors “on liberty.” Never enough for an occupying force, but this was an invasion of sorts. [/QUOTE] Geez, did that restaurant give a military discount or what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/33 "2008-04-16T04:58:26Z")
Isn’t there a South Park episode where Great Britain invades the US again? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/34 "2008-04-16T05:08:27Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] Isn’t there a South Park episode where Great Britain invades the US again? [/QUOTE] I recall a \*Family Guy \* episode where the godless Brits moved in and replaced the local bar with a pub. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/35 "2008-04-16T05:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t think they would have readily returned New Orleans, had they succeeded in taking it. [/QUOTE] And how on earth would they have held it? Think logistically for a moment. At most they would have tried to use the city as a bargaining chip to modify the terms of the Treaty of Ghent - though I suppose that might have included territorial demands in Michigan or Maine or something. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/36 "2008-04-16T06:29:42Z")
There are officers and offices who do nothing but draw up hypothetical plans all day. As such, Germany and Japan probably had such plans in some capacity. But they likely wouldn’t have been prepared with too much effort or taken seriously, as the very idea of a Japanese or German invasion of the mainland US is about as ridiculous as, say, the current US invading Mars with a batallion. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/37 "2008-04-16T08:26:31Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] But they likely wouldn’t have been prepared with too much effort or taken seriously, as the very idea of a Japanese or German invasion of the mainland US is about as ridiculous as, say, the current US invading Mars with a batallion. [/QUOTE] Hitler was not the most rational person. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/38 "2008-04-16T09:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] There are officers and offices who do nothing but draw up hypothetical plans all day. As such, Germany and Japan probably had such plans in some capacity. But they likely wouldn’t have been prepared with too much effort or taken seriously, as the very idea of a Japanese or German invasion of the mainland US is about as ridiculous as, say, the current US invading Mars with a batallion. [/QUOTE] That being said, it would be VERY interesting to see some of the plans that nations have drawn up to combat the US. Specifically China, Russia, and possibly any other nation that may have put some thought into it. I assure you, the plans exist, if only as thought exercises. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/39 "2008-04-16T10:35:01Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] That being said, it would be VERY interesting to see some of the plans that nations have drawn up to combat the US. Specifically China, Russia, and possibly any other nation that may have put some thought into it. I assure you, the plans exist, if only as thought exercises. [/QUOTE] Probably some of the most detailed plans involving the invasion of the US are made by the US military. It’d make sense for the Pentagon to have scenarios drawn up as the world politics and power spheres shift. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if there are think tanks devoted to precisely these sorts of theoreticals. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478/40 "2008-04-16T14:44:36Z")
Around the end of WWII, when Hitler had really gone 'round the bend, he ordered plans to be drawn up for an [“Amerikabomber”](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200405/wulf), a large bomber with a small, kamikaze-style bomber attached to its belly. The full-sized bomber would fly partway to the U.S., release the small bomber, and then return to Europe; the small bomber, which had no landing gear of its own, would then be on a suicide mission. Not an invasion plan so much as a “shock and awe” tactic, but it’s related. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-plans-to-invade-the-usa/445478.md?page=3)