# Were there any proven instances of the practice of demonology during the Middle Ages? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 7, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193 "2021-09-07T00:25:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/1 "2021-09-07T00:25:09Z")
Were there any proven instances (by modern scholars today) of the practice of demonology during the Middle Ages that resulted in the execution of actual practitioners or is that too difficult to prove at this remove? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/2 "2021-09-07T00:27:52Z")
Are you asking if anyone was ever found trying to call a demon, or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/3 "2021-09-07T00:29:20Z")
By demonology do you mean the study of demons and the demonic? Are you thinking of the Malleus Maleficarium by Heinrich Kramer in 1487? Or exactly what? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/4 "2021-09-07T00:41:49Z")
[You mean like Gilles de Rais?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais) ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/5 "2021-09-07T00:49:05Z")
King James of Scotland (as in the _King James Bible_) also published a book titled _Daemonology_ in 1597. He was convinced that witches were trying to kill him. The witch scare during his rule found hundreds of people “guilty” of witchcraft and executed an unknown number of them. I presume the majority, if not all, of the accused were actually innocent of witchcraft or demonology. I have no idea how anyone would prove today that any of the accused actually were practitioners of witchcraft. However, looking for records of witch scares and seeing what factual information is known about them today would be a place to start. Look at the “Were there any sort of witches” section of the following Wikipedia article. > **[Witch trials in the early modern period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Witch trials in the early modern period saw that between 1400 to 1782, around 40,000 to 60,000 were killed due to suspicion that they were practicing witchcraft. These trials occurred primarily in Europe, and were particularly severe in some parts of the Holy Roman Empire. Some witch hunts would last for years, and some sources estimate 100,000 trials occurred. Groundwork on the concept of witchcraft (a person's collaboration with the devil thr... ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/6 "2021-09-07T01:37:01Z")
I was thinking more in terms of invoking demons. I have searched but haven’t found any citations of actual sorcery or witchcraft. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/7 "2021-09-07T01:53:15Z")
Thanks for bringing the case Gilles de Rais to my attention. Still, his involvement in Satanism is viewed with skepticism today. I guess looking for an iron-clad case is probably futile. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/8 "2021-09-07T02:04:55Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > I was thinking more in terms of invoking demons. Are you asking if someone actually invoked a real demon? ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/9 "2021-09-07T02:29:21Z")
No simply an honest confession, not a forced one of trying to summon the devil. It would be simplistic to believe that wasn’t some interest among nominal Catholics to experiment in the occult. There were no doubt atheists and perhaps some did indeed practice devil worship despite it being an automatic death sentence if ever discovered. It’s impossible to prove conclusively. But I thought I would ask to find out if there were any plausible cases of satanic worship during the Middle Ages/the time of the Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/10 "2021-09-07T03:03:32Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > There were no doubt atheists and perhaps some did indeed practice devil worship Nit-pick. One thing atheists won’t be doing is worshipping devils, or any other mythical being for that matter. There certainly will still have been a reside of older religions that included belief in daemons, faeries, or the like. In some ways, Satan worshippers must be classified as Christians (aberrant, but where else do they find Satan to worship?). But they are most certainly not atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/11 "2021-09-07T03:28:09Z")
I do see the term atheist Satanists used online. But I do appreciate your point. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/12 "2021-09-07T03:35:28Z")
“Since the Devil falls under the protection of God, atheists do not believe in his existence”. Thanks again Francis\_Vaughan. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/13 "2021-09-07T04:24:22Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > I do see the term atheist Satanists used online. But I do appreciate your point. There is a [Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan), who are actually atheists. They don’t believe devils, demons, etc. actually exist and don’t try to invoke them. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/14 "2021-09-07T06:14:49Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There is a [Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan), who are actually atheists. On a side note, IMHO, one of the best dark ambient recordings ever is Lustmord’s Rising, which is a recording of a live event he performed the music for - a satanic mass for the Church of Satan. He is on record as finding the whole thing as somewhat hilarious. The history of the church as described in the above link is pretty hilarious as well. It reads like a rejected script for Life of Brian. Or a bunch of death metal freaks arguing over who is more hard core. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/15 "2021-09-07T06:27:31Z")
Back to the OP. No doubt there was a lot of residual non-Christian beliefs in the community, just not in the nobility or anyone that _really mattered_. Country folk that left out offerings for the faeries, avoided offending the wee-folk, and the like. And self styled wise women. Basically lots of pagan and early superstitious beliefs that even now have never fully gone away. But which of these would involve demons, and the summoning thereof? The idea that there exist such demons (or daemons) that can be both summoned, and requested to do your will, is pretty specific. Something that besets a lot of common modern ideas about earlier beliefs is the manner in which modern (where modern is perhaps the last hundred odd years) literature has created mash-ups of earlier beliefs and cultures that don’t represent anything like the reality. The middle ages were not a slice of the Disc-World. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/16 "2021-09-07T10:55:53Z")
Well, SOMEONE wrote those grimoires. Whether or not they ever tried the incantations would probably be discussed by Arthur Edward Waite or Aleister Crowley. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/17 "2021-09-07T11:40:56Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > SOMEONE wrote those grimoires Indeed. Use of a grimoire means the user can read. So that lets out a goodly portion of the populace in the middle ages. Moreover, the user is educated enough to read other languages. So that gets us back to the clergy, and educated elite in society, people for which messing about summoning daemons would probably get noticed. Over-curious clergy would have been handled internally to the church, so may not be easy to trace now. The Clavicule of Solomon and The Book of Honorius seem to be the grimoires of note that would have got you into trouble in the middle ages. There seems to have been a bit of a boom in the occult much much later that gives us many more grimoires, but too late in time to get you actually charged with summoning daemons. Just annoy the neighbours. (The stench of sulphur lingers for absolutely _ages_.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/18 "2021-09-08T01:13:28Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/19 "2021-09-08T04:51:35Z")
I just ran across a potential instance of demonology, although in the Renaissance. That should be close enough. It’s not like the people living at the time knew the Middle Ages were over and it was now time to Renais. The supposed demonizing was by John Dee, Elizabeth One’s court magician. He may have conjured up a demon to magic into existence the British Empire. Or maybe he just did a blood sacrifice of Christopher Marlowe. Anyway, you can read all about it here: > **[Did dark magic conjure up the British Empire?](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/mudchute-omphalos/)** > > Esoteric evidence points to a ritual performed by Queen Elizabeth's court magician John Dee. The main evidence is that the location he performed the magic is at the intersection of two major ley lines. Ley lines are lines that connect major structures. In this case, virtually all the structures were built after Dee’s time. You may or may not find that convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193/20 "2021-09-08T05:15:45Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > You may or may not find that convincing It is a pretty hilarious read. The usual drawing of random lines all over the map to find something nearby that could be vaguely interesting. Something impossible to avoid in a country as old as the UK. Given most of the intersections occur with things built after the alleged event it is even more amusing. But given the ultimate aim is to pitch the story as a movie script perhaps we should cut him some slack. However, the article seems to imply that perhaps the demon summoning was successful. I think we might have a whole set of new and pressing questions to answer if it is so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-any-proven-instances-of-the-practice-of-demonology-during-the-middle-ages/950193.md?page=2)