# Were there real advantages to column mounted manual gear shifts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504 "2014-12-30T04:09:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/41 "2015-02-10T16:11:39Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > …It’s interesting that because safety and lack of effort are being stressed, they use women driving alone. Usually car commercials barely acknowledge that know how to drive. Underlining mine. In fact women are so invisible I can’t even see them in your post. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/42 "2015-02-10T17:48:59Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Given the state of automotive technology since, say, the year 2000 forward … has anything specific kept push-button gear-shifting from becoming a big thing? Basically, a “manual transmission” that is electronically and remotely controlled – you press a button on the steering wheel, and the car responds by depressing the clutch, executing the shift, and then releasing the clutch.\*\* Year 2000? This was available in the early 1960’s with Renault’s “[semi-automatic transmission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_8#Semi-automatic_transmission).” It was a push-button-operated manual transmission with electromechanical shift actuators and an electromagnetic clutch. The main problems with the system, which I don’t believe are solved by later technology, stemmed from the complexity and mish-mash of stuff it takes to move the internal tranny parts the right distance in the right direction at the right time. Couple that with hardly any demand for it and there’s not enough incentive to tackle the project. Volkswagen went halfway with its [Automatic Stickshift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission#Volkswagen), with a vacuum-servo-operated clutch triggered by slight motion of the shift lever. Again, too much complexity and not enough demand to make it worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/43 "2015-02-10T18:31:19Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > So re-reading the cool “Cars of the Classic '30s” book (part of the multi-volume “Cars Of” series, it seems around 1938/39 auto manufacturers start pushing column mounted gear shifts over floor mounted shifts. These vehicles were almost all manual shifters, automatic transmissions being new, rare and complex in that era. > I believe these manual column shifters lasted well into the 1950s at least (“three on the tree” and such). > > While I’ve used with column shifters before, these were for automatic transmissions which are more or less ‘set and forget’ e.g. shift to reverse to get out of the driveway, shift to forward and go; manually shifting in general is more involved than that, and it seems to me a column shift is a lot more PITA than the (well now) more common floor or console shifter (which also seem easier and less tiring on the arm and wrist, particularly in stop and go traffic which was NOT uncommon by the 1950s). Wiki (of course) [has an entry on manual transmissions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Column-mounted_shifter) which mention gear shift lever locations, and gives as the advantages > Really? The non-obstruction of passenger seating, maybe I can see - but the not letting go of the steering wheel? That seems rather lame, even with manual steering the rule. > > Were there any better reasons for column mounted manual shifters? > > (BTW, if this is more IMHO, I can live with it being moved) Late 30’s cars, owner-driven as opposed to chauffer-drive, were mostly bench seats in front and it was safer for occupants to enter/exit the car from the curb/passenger side. Floor mounted shifters were mechanically more secure, robust, and easier to operate but took up floor space and may, sometimes, require the driver to take their eyes off the road in order to shift. Better design and materials allowed shifters to be mounted to the column (but they had their own operational problems as mentioned in earlier posts). Column mounting cleared floor space and the shift lever was always in view of the driver. You still had to take you hand off the steering wheel to shift gears. The Wiki entry is wrong (and you could correct it). It wasn’t you arm or wrist that would tire from operating a 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s manual trans. It was your clutch leg. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/44 "2015-02-10T18:44:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I learned to drive a manual with a floor shifter and column shifters just seemed weird after that. Kind of a retro feel maybe, but I think they would have been annoying with 4 or 5 gears. My friend had a Ford Fairlane with a column shift in High School, this was maybe 1973, it seemed totally out of date by then. CSB mode: A highschool classmate of mine also had a Fairlane with a column-mounted 3-speed! Class of 1999. Unfortunately he wrecked it before the end of the year. He was doing his best to destroy it before the crash, though. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/45 "2015-02-10T18:47:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Late 30’s cars, owner-driven as opposed to chauffer-drive, were mostly bench seats in front and it was safer for occupants to enter/exit the car from the curb/passenger side. While the others points in your post have already been touched upon (and are even mentioned a bit in the 1938 Chevy video I linked to - which also uses the phrase “the Power of Vacuum!” several times 😛 ), seeing drivers (well, actors playing drivers) in movies from the 20s-40s entering their parked vehicles from the passenger side always baffled me, as nobody I knew or saw did that without cause - drivers entered via the driver side door and that was that unless the door was frozen by ice, damaged, blocked by a parking garage column, or otherwise obstructed. At the time I wondered “why the heck did they do that?”, but now, decades later, I can confidently aver “why the heck did they do that?”. Was getting into a car parked on the street from the drivers side door really that much more dangerous during the 1930s than getting in, say, the 1970s? Not like curbside parking lanes got super wide by that time in most areas… ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/46 "2015-02-10T19:50:02Z")
I’ll touch on a tangent to the idea that column shifters freed up legroom. A much-touted feature of certain cars (for example: Corvair, rear engine and Toronado, FWD) was their flat front floor due to lack of a transmission hump. So, what do all the cars have now they’re FWD? They have huge consoles taking the space and more that the trans hump used to occupy! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/47 "2015-02-10T20:40:05Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > While the others points in your post have already been touched upon (and are even mentioned a bit in the 1938 Chevy video I linked to - which also uses the phrase “the Power of Vacuum!” several times 😛 ), seeing drivers (well, actors playing drivers) in movies from the 20s-40s entering their parked vehicles from the passenger side always baffled me, as nobody I knew or saw did that without cause - drivers entered via the driver side door and that was that unless the door was frozen by ice, damaged, blocked by a parking garage column, or otherwise obstructed. At the time I wondered “why the heck did they do that?”, but now, decades later, I can confidently aver “why the heck did they do that?”. Was getting into a car parked on the street from the drivers side door really that much more dangerous during the 1930s than getting in, say, the 1970s? Not like curbside parking lanes got super wide by that time in most areas… Everything was more dangerous in the 30’s. :eek: There were far fewer traffic laws and lane divider markings. Pass on the left unless you wanted to pass on the right. Driver training consisted of whatever the car seller passed along. Poor brakes, poor visibility, sloppy steering, overhanging side loads, and you pretty much took your life into your own hands every time you stepped into the street. Or drove a car. I don’t know if there were any laws passed that required all passengers to exit curbside but it would have been safer. Here’s a 2006 thread on the subject - > **[entering cars on wrong side](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=395919)** > > Hi folks, Why do people in older movies always enter the car from the passenger’s side? Even if there are two people, they’ll both enter from the passenger’s side–the first will just slide over to make room. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/48 "2015-02-10T21:02:09Z")
Cake theorizes on one advantage of the column-mount vs floor-mount stick shift: Stick shifts and safety belts, bucket seats have all got to go When we’re driving in the car, it makes my baby seem so far. ---
**Author:** ![48Willys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/db5fbb/32.png) [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/49 "2015-02-10T23:09:10Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > Can’t resist chiming in about my girlfriend shifting while snuggling. Came in handy later teaching her to drive, she knew the gear pattern. > > Anybody drive a big truck with a Brownie transmission? Floor stick one was 1-5 and stick two was 1-4. Giving you 20 gears. Work 1-5 like normal, reach through the steering wheel with the left arm while the right hand is on the other stick and walk up through 6-10 etc… Oh yeah, double clutching the whole time. Yes to the truck question. In the early 1970s, my family had an old Peterbilt that we used for moving equipment & for hauling poles to the mill. It moved D-6, & D8 Caterpillars, Skidders, Donkey Engines, Front end loaders, & a Gallion grader for the family business. It is a 1948 Peterbilt with a 180 horse Cummings, 5 speed main box 4 speed brownie, 2 speed rear axles & Hi-Lo in the transfer case. In 2WD, two wheel drive, which drove the 8 rear tires, it had 5X4X2X2=80 gears?!? IRL, I only used 20 of them most of the time. Since the front axle did not have 2 speeds, 4WD, for driving all 10 tires, only had 40 gears. Again IRL, I seldom used more then 4 gears since steering in 4WD was a hand-full. No power steering, just a large diameter steering wheel. I do remember reaching through the steering wheel to shift the main back into 2nd with my left hand and using my left thumb to switch to Hi range on the axles as my right hand shifted the brownie back into 2nd from 4th. I had to either slow down the double clutching, or tripple clutch so that all of the gears could come (up or down) to match speeds. Of course it has been over 40 years since I last drove that one, so I may be off on some of that. The rig is still at my uncles ranch, & it still drove as of last summer. It was used to move an old house onto the ranch from 15 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/50 "2015-02-11T06:37:30Z")
Long story short, only 18 wheeler truck I ever drove, I was 18 ( 1961) & got to drive an Acar about ½ a mile. Just the tractor and did not get to use all the gears by a long shot. 10 speed ( 2 reverses in that tranny? ) IIRC, over a 4 speed brownie, over a 2 speed final drive. It was not pretty but I could follow directions & I already knew how to double clutch. Never drove on again and only road in a couple in all the years since. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/51 "2015-02-11T06:45:24Z")
I once knew a guy that had taken an old Chevy frame with a straight 6 engine and a 3 speed transmission, mount a second transmission behind the first, added tractor wheels filled with something, maybe water. Had a long banana seat like box and steering wheel and pedals. It was the farm heavy drag machine. Was an interesting machine. Slowest or lowest gear FWD was reverse & reverse on the transmissions. When I was first exposed to it, took me a few bits of time to figure out why. All made from his junk pile and the cars in the gully. Now that was real ‘country doins.’ ---
**Author:** ![48Willys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/db5fbb/32.png) [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/52 "2015-02-11T08:42:09Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Long story short, only 18 wheeler truck I ever drove, I was 18 ( 1961) & got to drive an Acar about ½ a mile. Just the tractor and did not get to use all the gears by a long shot. > > 10 speed ( 2 reverses in that tranny? ) IIRC, over a 4 speed brownie, over a 2 speed final drive. > > It was not pretty but I could follow directions & I already knew how to double clutch. > > Never drove on again and only road in a couple in all the years since. Most ten speeds are really a 5 speed main box with 2 speed axles. So, yes 2 speed reverse. But wait! add the 4 speed brownie, & now it has 8 speed reverse! IRL, you would only use, at most, two. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > I once knew a guy that had taken an old Chevy frame with a straight 6 engine and a 3 speed transmission, mount a second transmission behind the first, added tractor wheels filled with something, maybe water. Had a long banana seat like box and steering wheel and pedals. > > It was the farm heavy drag machine. > > Was an interesting machine. Slowest or lowest gear FWD was reverse & reverse on the transmissions. > > When I was first exposed to it, took me a few bits of time to figure out why. > > All made from his junk pile and the cars in the gully. > > Now that was real ‘country doins.’ Those are called Jitneys around here. I have driven a few. It is an experiance. They will pull almost anything. Just very slowly. Some folks around here build them just for fun. The slower, the bigger, & the cheaper the better. It is almost a sport! But sports are way too organized for some of us. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/53 "2015-02-11T09:23:29Z")
There were reasons for the switch to column-mounted gear shifts other than to allow for three people in the front seat. Floor-shift throws were very long. They weren’t like anything experienced today. The throws were so long the driver’s hand could hit the dash when moving the thing into second or reverse, and the shift handles had to be pulled so far back for first and third that the were bent at the level of the seat so they could avoid hitting it. So of course a centre passenger was out of the question. And any concept of speed shifting would have been laughable. I may be wrong, but I think GM first pushed the idea of column shifters. It came up with vacuum-assisted shifting as a marketing ploy to sell cars to women, and that wouldn’t work with those long-throw floor shifters. And it was preparing for the first auto-transmission sales push, with Oldsmobile in 1939. The war, of course, killed that effort. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/54 "2015-02-11T17:06:01Z")
> [@48Willys](#): > > :::: snip :::: > > Those are called Jitneys around here. I have driven a few. It is an experiance. They will pull almost anything. Just very slowly. > > Some folks around here build them just for fun. The slower, the bigger, & the cheaper the better. It is almost a sport! But sports are way too organized for some of us. This I had not heard about. I can see the attraction for this, especially in ‘one up men-ship’ in a local area. Would be fun to go to a gathering and watch. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/55 "2015-02-11T17:43:29Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Floor-shift throws were very long. They weren’t like anything experienced today. The throws were so long the driver’s hand could hit the dash when moving the thing into second or reverse, and the shift handles had to be pulled so far back for first and third that the were bent at the level of the seat so they could avoid hitting it. So of course a centre passenger was out of the question. And any concept of speed shifting would have been laughable. Yes, I remember that. I had a buddy years ago (1977, 1978) who had an American car (forget which one), a few years old by that point, that had a floor-mounted shifter. The front bench seat actually had a cutout to allow for the full range of the shifter. Now I wonder if that was the reason for the aftermarket “performance” shifter kits you could get back then. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/56 "2015-02-11T18:03:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Yes, I remember that. I had a buddy years ago (1977, 1978) who had an American car (forget which one), a few years old by that point, that had a floor-mounted shifter. The front bench seat actually had a cutout to allow for the full range of the shifter. > > Now I wonder if that was the reason for the aftermarket “performance” shifter kits you could get back then. Depends on the transmission. for automatics, people used to use ratcheting performance shifters for drag racing. they would manually shift from 1-2 and 2-D during a run, and the ratcheting mechanism let them just slam the lever forward to upshift without having to worry about it going all the way into Park. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/57 "2015-02-12T21:36:42Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Yes, I remember that. I had a buddy years ago (1977, 1978) who had an American car (forget which one), a few years old by that point, that had a floor-mounted shifter. The front bench seat actually had a cutout to allow for the full range of the shifter. My old Duster with a three-speed floor shift and a bench seat didn’t have a cutout in the seat–but it did have a ridiculously convoluted shift lever ;^) ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/58 "2015-02-14T05:24:01Z")
I stilll know how to fold my legs out of the way of the floor shifter sitting in the middle in a pickup. I learned to drive in a 48 Chevie with vacuum assisted column shift. The vacuum enabled a shorter throw. They were reputed to be unreliable, but ours never gave trouble. I really dislike those monstrous “consol” things taking up the room for a third passenger. Incidently, cars in the 40s ran the windshield wipers from the engine vacuum - when you floored it, the wipers stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504/59 "2015-02-14T18:54:04Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > Incidently, cars in the 40s ran the windshield wipers from the engine vacuum - when you floored it, the wipers stopped. Ford still had them in 1960, probably longer. And American Motors hung on to them into the '70s. Probably saved six bits a car. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-there-real-advantages-to-column-mounted-manual-gear-shifts/708504.md?page=2)