# Were US politics less hostile a few decades ago? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 29, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902 "2014-09-29T20:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/21 "2014-09-30T22:14:21Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > So, Democrats only got nasty as a reaction to Republican nastiness? Yes, that’s right, just you place original sin on your political opponents. Coincidence that your having a go at your opponents? I think not. I can just as easily claim Fox was in response to CNN and Network News, or, that the Gingrich level of discourse came about only as control of the House of Reps became competitive. Competition does often lead to desperation on both sides, its rarely only a single side dumps shit on the other. If I were losing the House for the first time in 40 years I would play as dirty as required. > > We can all play the blame game. I think you’ll find by and large individuals and political groups have similar levels of corruption, dirty tricks and nastiness. They all demonise opponents, play cheap tricks and all take the low road as much as the high road. They all take roughly the same level of backhanders, commit the same number of affairs, and subject their competitors to the same levels of vitriol. Any party that ruled the House of Representatives with numbers from the old South cannot with a straight face claim superior political decency over Newt f\*ckin Gingrich. Well, Fox themselves, claim they came about as a counter to mainstream media that they considered “liberal” news. Before them, most of those outlets were called just plain old “news”. Newt Gingrich, from either his first or second term in congress, started giving those overnight conservative diatribes bashing the democratic leadership and liberalism, in general, that were broadcast on CSPAN. Then other conservatives joined him. Funny thing, it was the popularity of those broadcasts on CSPAN that gave the idea to start Fox News. Now I don’t deny that there have probably been democrat and leftward candidates bashing pubs and conservatives over the years. But I still maintain that it was Gingrich that started it on the road where it is today. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/22 "2014-09-30T22:40:36Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Well, Fox themselves, claim they came about as a counter to mainstream media that they considered “liberal” news. Before them, most of those outlets were called just plain old “news”. > > Newt Gingrich, from either his first or second term in congress, started giving those overnight conservative diatribes bashing the democratic leadership and liberalism, in general, that were broadcast on CSPAN. Then other conservatives joined him. Funny thing, it was the popularity of those broadcasts on CSPAN that gave the idea to start Fox News. > > Now I don’t deny that there have probably been democrat and leftward candidates bashing pubs and conservatives over the years. But I still maintain that it was Gingrich that started it on the road where it is today. When discussing the Gingrich era its next to impossible to limit as to why the rhetoric turned the way it did to one particular reason. Liberals will tend to blame Gingrich and the Republicans. This is a legitimate enough stance for liberals to take, even if a predictable one. As someone from the Right I tend to look more at the House becoming competitive as the likely reason for such change. Competition can lead to “a race to the bottom” as we are often told in this now fashionable phrase. Add to the mix a newly conserative/libertarian movement on steroids and you have yourself a number of reasons why not only the Republicans would decide to play nasty. Again, these latter reasons are predictable for I as someone on the right to make. As a British libertarian my knowledge of the issue is patchy at best. However, I did see a similar thing happen in the UK during the Thatcher era. The hatred in that ideological and political struggle was more than one way. I’ve heard elsewhere that the atmosphere in Washington changed with the Bork hearings. After that things were never quite the same. I don’t know how true this is but it was one commentator’s take on the matter (and from what I remember not an obviously partisan commentator). ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/23 "2014-09-30T23:06:00Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > When discussing the Gingrich era its next to impossible to limit as to why the rhetoric turned the way it did to one particular reason. Liberals will tend to blame Gingrich and the Republicans. This is a legitimate enough stance for liberals to take, even if a predictable one. **As someone from the Right I tend to look more at the House becoming competitive as the likely reason for such change.** Competition can lead to “a race to the bottom” as we are often told in this now fashionable phrase. Add to the mix a newly conserative/libertarian movement on steroids and you have yourself a number of reasons why not only the Republicans would decide to play nasty. Again, these latter reasons are predictable for I as someone on the right to make. > > As a British libertarian my knowledge of the issue is patchy at best. However, I did see a similar thing happen in the UK during the Thatcher era. The hatred in that ideological and political struggle was more than one way. > > I’ve heard elsewhere that the atmosphere in Washington changed with the Bork hearings. After that things were never quite the same. I don’t know how true this is but it was one commentator’s take on the matter (and from what I remember not an obviously partisan commentator). Here’s the thing, the House really WASN’T considered very competitive until Gingrich. The dems had a 40 year reign on the majority. Gingrich was pretty much the ONLY republican House member who talked about taking over the majority. Everyone else considered it a ridiculous notion. I actually give him credit for that. But the way he achieved it was to constantly demonize democrats over the span of YEARS until he and other conservatives chipped away at dem popularity enough to put the pubs in the position to take over. NOW you can say the House is more competitive, but the pubs learned their slash and burn campaigning from Gingrich. Because it worked for them. Until another candidate of either party comes along and wins without such tactics, we’re gonna see this for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/24 "2014-09-30T23:52:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s worse today because we no longer live in the same reality. In the turbulent 1960s, we all read the same papers and watched the same news. We at least agreed on what was happening, we just disagreed on what to do about it. Nowadays, the right wingers insulate themselves in the world of Fox “News”, hate radio, and internet glurge and their perception of reality is so distorted that there is no longer any way to communicate with them. \*\*Everyone \*\*- liberal or conservative - thinks their news sources are more fair/accurate/professional than the other side’s sources. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/25 "2014-09-30T23:58:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > \*\*Everyone \*\*- liberal or conservative - thinks their news sources are more fair/accurate/professional than the other side’s sources. Obviously, but some sources are actually better than the others. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/26 "2014-10-01T14:24:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obviously, but some sources are actually better than the others. Maybe, but the real best way is to consume a variety of sources from both sides and the middle, and draw your conclusions from there. That’s the point I was trying to make (and in a lopsided way, **BobLibDem** too)- each side has their “best” sources, and we end up with 2 sides who are talking at each other about the same issues, but with different sources and biases, and as a result, there’s not much common ground. It’s not a perfect analogy, but what comes to mind to me is 2 toddler siblings each asking a different parent the same question, getting slightly different answers, and then getting in a fight with each other because Daddy said the walls are khaki, and Mommy said they’re tan. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/27 "2014-10-01T14:58:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And the left-wingers don’t do the same here, and on MSNBC, Daily Kos, the Village Voice and the like? Are you talking about the MSNBC that has Joe Scarborough on for several hours a day? You’re right, he’s exactly the sort of lefty that, if you listened only to people like him, you’d get the same sort of epistemic closure that you find on the right. Seriously, unlike on the right, there are just too few places to go to get an all-lefty view of the universe to get the same sort of thing going on. We don’t have our own TV network. The ‘liberal’ WaPo op-ed page has a whole stable of very conservative op-ed columnists, for instance, including not one but two former Bush speechwriters, plus old hands like Krauthammer and Will. The Sunday morning political talk shows on those ‘liberal’ TV networks have a pronounced Republican lean. Like it or not, there just isn’t anywhere to hide from the conservative worldview, unless you’re willing to scrunch yourself into a really, _really_ small subset of the media universe. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/28 "2014-10-01T15:01:39Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Your wasting your time. The liberals on here have already decided to place all the blame on right wing Republicans. At they same time these liberal posters decry the fact past Republicans demonised their opponents. These posters just happen to be demonising Republicans as they type this stuff. > > Let me tell you folks, political movements invariably play a mixture of nasty and nice. This goes for liberals, conservatives, reactionaries, socialists, fascists, nationalists, libertarians, liberal Democrats, moderate Democrats, Republicans, moderate Republicans, The Tea Party, The Occupy Movement and every movement in between. Some of these movements are better placed than others to play dirty, but they all do it. Thank you for representing the Bothsidesdoitist religion. We needed that point of view expressed here. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/29 "2014-10-01T15:12:47Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Maybe, but the real best way is to consume a variety of sources from both sides and the middle, and draw your conclusions from there. If you want to know what is real, you can’t contaminate your study with water from a poisoned well. Watching Fox or listening to Mike Savage gives you no insight on reality. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/30 "2014-10-01T16:06:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If you want to know what is real, you can’t contaminate your study with water from a poisoned well. Watching Fox or listening to Mike Savage gives you no insight on reality. But, it does – the reality of the contents of the RW mind, which others cannot safely ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/31 "2014-10-01T16:17:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 And that explains the existence, or the perception, of the present level of hostility? My point is, people always say “best ever!” or “worst ever!” right after something happened. By 2034, we may pine for the “good old days” of 2014. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/32 "2014-10-01T17:50:04Z")
The current Senate GOP - hardly the most radical part of the GOP - has repeatedly filibustered Obama nominees _that were eventually approved unanimously_. And no previous President has had anything like this much difficulty getting his nominees through the Senate. Right now, all sorts of key ambassadorships are unfilled because the Senate won’t vote on them. And numerous GOP figures are talking impeachment on the basis of…hell, you tell me. Damned if I can figure it out. Yes, as a matter of fact, U.S. politics used to be less hostile than they are right now. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/33 "2014-10-02T14:35:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If you want to know what is real, you can’t contaminate your study with water from a poisoned well. Watching Fox or listening to Mike Savage gives you no insight on reality. And there we go. This is why we can’t have nice political things. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/34 "2014-10-02T14:41:32Z")
I agree with Bob that there are some who just aren’t worth paying attention to, but there are good thinkers on both sides and it pays to know your enemy. If Democrats lose in 2016, it will be primarily because they didn’t bother to learn how Republicans actually think. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/35 "2014-10-02T14:58:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If Democrats lose in 2016, it will be primarily because they didn’t bother to learn how Republicans actually think. It’s no secret how Republicans actually think, and I daresay Dems know rather more about that than the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/36 "2014-10-02T14:59:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And there we go. This is why we can’t have nice political things. I’ve been listening to Savage myself on my afternoon commute. After two minutes I’m thinking holy fuck, if you believe what he spews you’re going to be one hateful bigoted motherfucker. This guy makes Limbaugh look like Mother Teresa. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/37 "2014-10-02T15:51:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is no left equivalent to Fox “News”. MSNBC has some hosts that lean left, but the news itself is held to journalistic standards. I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/38 "2014-10-02T16:05:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because Hillary Clinton has a history of working well with Republicans You do remember all the demonization they did of her for Hillarycare, don’t you? Oh, maybe you don’t. > [@](#): > > as did her husband. Whom they impeached out of spite. > [@](#): > > And Democrats, even when they want to, are unable to successfully obstruct Republican Presidents. Got a favorite example? > [@](#): > > So either way, things will be a little more amiable. In what way will you have changed? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/39 "2014-10-02T16:27:18Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Any party that ruled the House of Representatives with numbers from the old South cannot with a straight face claim superior political decency over Newt f\*ckin Gingrich. It can **now.** ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902/40 "2014-10-02T16:33:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ve been listening to Savage myself on my afternoon commute. After two minutes I’m thinking holy fuck, if you believe what he spews you’re going to be one hateful bigoted motherfucker. This guy makes Limbaugh look like Mother Teresa. Oh, I didn’t mean you have to believe what these guys say, only that it’s worth listening to, if only to know your enemy, so to speak. My point was that if you only stick to the news sources that tell you what you like to hear, you’re going to have a skewed view of the world and of events. In other words, it’s good to get a little pissed off every now and again just so you know what the other side is concerned with. I mean, I don’t really agree with a lot of the progressive party line stuff around here, but it’s worth knowing, so that I’m aware of the opposing viewpoint and why they think that way. You may change your mind, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-us-politics-less-hostile-a-few-decades-ago/699902.md?page=3)