# Were we feminists wrong? Rape is down 85 % while porn use is up and up..... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151 "2009-09-07T08:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/101 "2009-09-09T17:27:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > As often as the old adage “correlation doesn’t equal causation” is mentioned here, I’m surprised that to see I’m the first to say it. Very true. Nevertheless when one forms a hypothesis it is usually based on some observed phenomenon that suggests there may be a link. Correlation prompts a closer look. Also, as is usual when writing out a hypothesis, you suggest what you expect to find. That is the case here. Some groups in the 70’s were making the claim that pornography causes men to be rapists (or rather contributes to a higher incidence of rape). Numerous studies, as have been posted earlier, found no such causal link. Then we have a sharp rise in the availability of pornography and a sharp decrease in the incidence of rape that coincide pretty closely. Is it possible that pornography does increase the incidence of rape, despite the previous studies, and some other effect just completely overwhelmed that effect such that overall incidences of rape decreased? I suppose it is possible but one would think for such a thing to occur we would see something standing out that would have such a massive effect and there is none. To me that leaves two options. Either pornography has effectively zero impact on rape incidences and something else is at work OR greater access to pornography has contribute (to some degree) to lower incidences in rape. There is no other way to parse it really. Either way the evidence very strongly suggests that pornography is not the social evil it was once portrayed as. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/102 "2009-09-09T19:18:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Very true. > > Nevertheless when one forms a hypothesis it is usually based on some observed phenomenon that suggests there may be a link. Correlation prompts a closer look. Also, as is usual when writing out a hypothesis, you suggest what you expect to find. That is the case here. I think there’s a lot better ways of getting evidence than looking at two, potentially unrelated trends and drawing conclusions from their existence. As a minor data point, sure, pointing out a correlation is okay. But I think people are giving these stats a lot more weight than they should. Since the claim that’s being disputed in this thread never gained any credible traction (as opposed to the “rape is about power, not sex” meme which has nothing to do with porn) and doesn’t appear to be based on any science, I don’t think it’s necessary to reach for the bottom of the barrel to find evidence against it. Who here has even seriously heard anyone making this claim? Porn is highly accessible today, but is there any evidence that porn _use_ (at least among men) has gone up substantially? If I had to generate a hypothesis, I’d say the porn users of today are yesterday’s patrons of peepshows and prostitutes. Not jump-you-in-the-alley rapists. Men with the urge to get their cravings satisfied have always had an outlet, and to most nonpathological individuals, the benefits of raping someone outweigh the costs. Society’s attitudes towards women and their worth (you know, all that wacky feminist stuff) have inarguably improved in the last 50 decades, just as rape incidence has declined. Increased awareness of the wrongness of date rape and other crimes that were more social permissable has probably also had a positive effect. Since liberal attitudes towards women rights seem to go hand in hand with the kind of sexual openness that lets porn proliferate, I’m strongly inclined to see porn as being a confounder, not a cause of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/103 "2009-09-09T19:28:36Z")
So does this mean we should stop the cargo ship full of **Debbie Does Dallas** videos en route to the [Congo](http://www.worldpress.org/Africa/1561.cfm)? ETA Sorry, sorry, that’s in bad taste. FTR I can’t help but agree with **you with the face**. This [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800610.html) article from 2006 is somewhat skeptical, although still hopeful. I think that’s a pretty healthy attitude ot have towards the stats. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/104 "2009-09-09T20:39:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Since the claim that’s being disputed in this thread never gained any credible traction (as opposed to the “rape is about power, not sex” meme which has nothing to do with porn) and doesn’t appear to be based on any science, I don’t think it’s necessary to reach for the bottom of the barrel to find evidence against it. Who here has even seriously heard anyone making this claim? I have. By U.S Attorney General [Edwin Meese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meese_Commission), no less. Also, quite frequently when I was in college, and at least twice on these boards in the last six months. > [@](#): > > Porn is highly accessible today, but is there any evidence that porn _use_ (at least among men) has gone up substantially? If I had to generate a hypothesis, I’d say the porn users of today are yesterday’s patrons of peepshows and prostitutes. Not jump-you-in-the-alley rapists. Men with the urge to get their cravings satisfied have always had an outlet, and to most nonpathological individuals, the benefits of raping someone outweigh the costs. I agree, access to porn is unlikely to prevent anyone from turning into a violent rapist. I can see how it might reduce incidences of date rape, although I don’t know how you could possibly prove a connection there. As to how much porn is consumed, keep in mind that the internet provides a level of anonymity and safety that is not available with peep shows and prostitutes. Someone who would be too embarrassed to walk into a titty bar in real life might have no reservations about downloading gigs worth of German shcisse porn in the privacy of his own home. While a large number of former patrons of various kinds of sex workers has definitely decreased with the rise of internet porn, I think that a huge number of other men have started consuming porn now that they can do so in total anonymity. > [@](#): > > Society’s attitudes towards women and their worth (you know, all that wacky feminist stuff) have inarguably improved in the last 50 decades, just as rape incidence has declined. Increased awareness of the wrongness of date rape and other crimes that were more social permissable has probably also had a positive effect. Since liberal attitudes towards women rights seem to go hand in hand with the kind of sexual openness that lets porn proliferate, I’m strongly inclined to see porn as being a confounder, not a cause of anything. I think you’re probably right that porn has no direct connection to the reduction of violence against women in society. But that’s not what’s being argued in this thread. The argument in this thread is that, contrary to popular wisdom, porn does not lead to an _increase_ in violence against women. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/105 "2009-09-09T21:02:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think you’re probably right that porn has no direct connection to the reduction of violence against women in society. But that’s not what’s being argued in this thread. The argument in this thread is that, contrary to popular wisdom, porn does not lead to an _increase_ in violence against women. It still may; there’s no evidence either way (at least not in the correlation numbers, and experiments would be difficult to do, though I haven’t looked for them). The cultural changes that have occurred with regard to the availability of porn, the role of women in society, and cultural attitudes about sex and violence over recent decades have likely washed out any effect of porn on sexual assault. Correlation STILL doesn’t equal causation, even when you’re saying the correlation means that one thing _doesn’t_ cause another, especially when there are so many factors that can affect the outcome. Do I think the increase in pornography has much to do with incidence of sexual assault? Nah. But you can’t conclude that from this data- they’re completely unrelated numbers. You can’t conclude anything from them. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/106 "2009-09-09T21:22:57Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Why can’t the results go both ways ? I can see a somewhat anti-social young man wishing to act out a fantasy generated by porn as much as a more stable young man satisfied by the porn stimulation towards masturbation. As I mentioned above, Craigslist and various social networking sites have allowed people with non-mainstream sexual tastes to find people who share them, from spankers finding willing spankees, to people with rape fantasies finding someone to fulfill that. Hell, [Armin Meiwes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes) advertised for a victim to be willingly murdered, and _found one_. > [@](#): > > Definitive results can only be net results and the incidence of rape more likely to be affected by other social factors. Ah, you’re back. Have you found a cite for your claim that “child porn” is a multi-billion-dollar industry? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/107 "2009-09-09T21:28:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think you’re probably right that porn has no direct connection to the reduction of violence against women in society. But that’s not what’s being argued in this thread. The argument in this thread is that, contrary to popular wisdom, porn does not lead to an _increase_ in violence against women. Well, I think calling it “popular wisdom” is going overboard. Maybe I’m living in a cave, but the OP is the first time I’d ever heard this claim. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/108 "2009-09-09T22:10:54Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > It still may; there’s no evidence either way (at least not in the correlation numbers, and experiments would be difficult to do, though I haven’t looked for them). The cultural changes that have occurred with regard to the availability of porn, the role of women in society, and cultural attitudes about sex and violence over recent decades have likely washed out any effect of porn on sexual assault. > > Correlation STILL doesn’t equal causation, even when you’re saying the correlation means that one thing _doesn’t_ cause another, especially when there are so many factors that can affect the outcome. > > Do I think the increase in pornography has much to do with incidence of sexual assault? Nah. But you can’t conclude that from this data- they’re completely unrelated numbers. You can’t conclude anything from them. Please read Post #4. Numerous studies in different countries have been performed and all found no link between pornography and increased violence towards women. So, we know that porn does not lead to violence. Does it reduce violence towards women the more available it is? We do not know and are just left with a suggestive correlation. So, as I mentioned up-thread it either has no effect or a positive effect (in that it decreases violence to some degree). That question is not answered but clearly it is not “bad” as once was being put forth by feminists as per the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/109 "2009-09-09T22:11:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, I think calling it “popular wisdom” is going overboard. Maybe I’m living in a cave, but the OP is the first time I’d ever heard this claim. Really? You must have avoided listing to feminists or anyone sympathetic to them back when the claim was in it’s heyday. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/110 "2009-09-09T22:20:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, I think calling it “popular wisdom” is going overboard. Maybe I’m living in a cave, but the OP is the first time I’d ever heard this claim. I’m genuinely surprised to hear that. In my experience, it’s an extremely common belief. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/111 "2009-09-09T22:46:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m genuinely surprised to hear that. In my experience, it’s an extremely common belief. I second that, in the 1980s it was positively common wisdom among American feminists one would run into, and many others. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/112 "2009-09-09T23:00:03Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > I second that, in the 1980s it was positively common wisdom among American feminists one would run into, and many others. I’m a bit young but I am a feminist and I’ve never run into real-life feminists (including professors and speakers) who argued that porn led to sexual assault. I’ve heard arguments that much of the porn itself is objectifying and insulting to women, and I’ve met plenty of feminists who have worked in the sex industry who argue that the business itself is sexist in many ways and harmful to women, but most have been quite sex and porn positive overall. But again, I’m part of the Yes Means Yes generation. Coincidentally enough, just read this (rather vague) quote [via Jezebel](http://jezebel.com/5355724/what-if-keeping-women-safe-meant-educating-men) reads > [@](#): > > A 2007 Department of Justice-funded trend analysis of rape studies over time revealed that rates of rape haven’t declined in the past 15 years — in fact, they may be increasing. Will try to find the study. Not sure if it’s only in reference to on-campus assault. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/113 "2009-09-09T23:05:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’m a bit young but I am a feminist and I’ve never run into real-life feminists (including professors and speakers) who argued that porn led to sexual assault. I heard from a college-student feminist in the early 90s that Playboy was rape-porn. I can nearly guarantee that she’d never seen a Playboy in her life. I think this sort of claim is much less common than it used to be–but I used to hear it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/114 "2009-09-09T23:11:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I heard from a college-student feminist in the early 90s that Playboy was rape-porn. I can nearly guarantee that she’d never seen a Playboy in her life. What’s rape porn? Porn that suggests or depicts rape or porn that rapists enjoy? There’s (clearly) porn that depicts rape and is meant to get the viewer off (but yeah, maybe not in Playboy, except maybe in the [ads](http://jezebel.com/5354850/the-game-is-broomsticks)). But just because you find something offensive doesn’t mean you believe it will lead to crime. You can dislike minstrel shows because of a p.o.v. they foster without thinking they’ll cause viewers to go out and beat black people. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/115 "2009-09-09T23:14:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’m a bit young but I am a feminist and I’ve never run into real-life feminists (including professors and speakers) who argued that porn led to sexual assault. I’ve heard arguments that much of the porn itself is objectifying and insulting to women, and I’ve met plenty of feminists who have worked in the sex industry who argue that the business itself is sexist in many ways and harmful to women, but most have been quite sex and porn positive overall. But again, I’m part of the Yes Means Yes generation. This echoes my experience. People who see porn as a Bad Thing readily say it destroys relationships and lead to unrealistic views towards women, but I haven’t heard them say much about sexual assualt . So I’d put those who have that belief in the minority camp. Maybe they were popular in the 70’s and 80’s but that was a while ago. And while I’m here, I should correct something I wrote earlier lest I cause confusion. > [@ywtf](#): > > Men with the urge to get their cravings satisfied have always had an outlet, and to most nonpathological individuals, the **benefits of raping someone outweigh the costs.** I meant that costs outweigh the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/116 "2009-09-10T01:40:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’m strongly inclined to see porn as being a confounder, not a cause of anything. Well then you’re in agreement with most people in this thread, aren’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/117 "2009-09-10T02:01:12Z")
Most porn shows women being far more sexual than men could ever be in response to sexual thrills. It looks all about women getting sexual thrills. The very rare occasions where men are ‘victim’ are all about violence and the power domination that _feminists_ but nobody else say sex is about. It is true that there is _language of porn_, but if _slut_ only means _woman free enough not to care that prudes put her down_ , so what? The only time I have ever mad a point of saying that a lot of American porn was ‘misogynist’ in that it shaved women to make them look immature and emphasised anal sex because the men it was aimed at really fear women and prefer boys (all ‘traditional’ feminist criticism) and I couldn’t see how anal pressure could be as effective for a woman as on a man’s prostate, it was a woman calling herself ‘feminist’ who tore into me that I _had no right to dictate what women should like_ and she enjoyed anal sex all the time and I was _misogynist_ to dare criticise women for indulging in it. More recently I’ve fallen out very badly with somebody I got on well with because she’d thought of sex as a ‘service’ she couldn’t provide at the time and I’d told her that only a man with the selfishness of a rapist would care more about getting his own rocks off than sharing affection however it suits both. One woman who prefered to be looked on as a _sex object_ providing a service for somebody she loved, but not so different from a man feeling the woman’s satisfaction should matter more than his own. Feminists appear to be stuck in the 1950s. The very last thing they believe is equality of the sexes and they are part of the elimination of ‘feminine’ values from society altogether after men started to rediscover them, and to oppose the conservative values demanded of them. Feminists impose those traditional values and prudery on liberated women. This is a feminist: [My sexual revolution | Women | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/30/women-gayrights) She makes it clear that for her homosexual ‘Lesbianism’ does not mean actual sex with women, it just means belief in sex with men as ‘traditionally’ subservient and inferior just like Granny said. Sexual equality means women enjoying teasing men with sexual thrills as much as men enjoy women’s. It means women making love with men as confident equals instead of frightened inferior feminists. If you can’t say ‘Yes’ (or ask), how can your ‘No’ be trusted? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/118 "2009-09-10T02:53:17Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > You’re the one who made the claim, you’re the one who has to provide the proof. You just made a claim that there is a child porn industry, that is, porn featuring people under the age of 18, is worth billions. The entire US legal porn industry was estimated to be worth $13 billion in 2006 by Adult Video News. That’s video stores with hundreds or thousands of titles on the shelves, multiple channels of 24 hour porn, pay-per-view channels, movie sales in hotels, the whole US porn business estimated at $13 billion. You said “billions” with an S, so that’s at least $2 billion. You’re claiming that CHILD PORN is two sevenths of the ENTIRE PORN BUSINESS? How the hell is that money made when it is completely illegal to buy, sell or own it? > > Perhaps Great Debates is not really for you. > [@gaffa](#): > > Ah, you’re back. Have you found a cite for your claim that “child porn” is a multi-billion-dollar industry? I tried to ignore your silly post attempting to put down my earlier suggestion that the child porn industry was worth billions. When you somehow twisted two billion dollars of illegal child porn as a factor of 13 billion dollars legal plus the 2 billion dollars illegal child porn and get 2/7 instead of 2/15 I realized I was wasting my time attempting to educate you. If for some reason you feel you’ve made your point wrt to child porn by asserting uncited stats regarding adult porn, I won’t bother to disabuse you of your conviction. Now go away and don’t bother me. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/119 "2009-09-10T03:00:59Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Well then you’re in agreement with most people in this thread, aren’t you. “And the award for the most non value-added post in a GD thread goes to…” ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/120 "2009-09-10T03:12:05Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I tried to ignore your silly post attempting to put down my earlier suggestion that the child porn industry was worth billions. Again, you’re dancing around the fact that you offered a completely random, and totally uncited claim that “child porn” is somehow a 2 billion dollar industry. I offered a cite, from a group that represents the adult entertainment industry that estimates their entire industry at $13 billion. The source for their numbers is clear - AVN is to the adult entertainment industry what Billboard is to the recorded music industry and Variety is the the US movie business. > [@](#): > > When you somehow twisted two billion dollars of illegal child porn as a factor of 13 billion dollars legal plus the 2 billion dollars illegal child porn and get 2/7 instead of 2/15 I realized I was wasting my time attempting to educate you. Well, here’s my opportunity to educate you in how to gracefully admit a mistake: I made a mistake. See? Isn’t that easy? I meant to type in one seventh, and in the course of editing my post, I typed in the wrong thing. Sorry. Now, will you have the grace of admitting that your claim was bullshit? > [@](#): > > If for some reason you feel you’ve made your point wrt to child porn by asserting uncited stats regarding adult porn, I won’t bother to disabuse you of your conviction. [Here’s one from Business Wire](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=156729536). > [@](#): > > Now go away and don’t bother me. Where’s your cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151.md?page=7)