# Were we feminists wrong? Rape is down 85 % while porn use is up and up..... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151 "2009-09-07T08:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/121 "2009-09-10T03:16:43Z")
> [@Jerseyman](#): > > Most porn shows women being far more sexual than men could ever be in response to sexual thrills. It looks all about women getting sexual thrills. The very rare occasions where men are ‘victim’ are all about violence and the power domination that _feminists_ but nobody else say sex is about. > > It is true that there is _language of porn_, but if _slut_ only means _woman free enough not to care that prudes put her down_ , so what? The only time I have ever mad a point of saying that a lot of American porn was ‘misogynist’ in that it shaved women to make them look immature and emphasised anal sex because the men it was aimed at really fear women and prefer boys (all ‘traditional’ feminist criticism) and I couldn’t see how anal pressure could be as effective for a woman as on a man’s prostate, it was a woman calling herself ‘feminist’ who tore into me that I _had no right to dictate what women should like_ and she enjoyed anal sex all the time and I was _misogynist_ to dare criticise women for indulging in it. Dictating what sexual activities consenting adults should pursue might not make you a misogynist, but it does make you conceited and moralizing. > [@Jerseyman](#): > > More recently I’ve fallen out very badly with somebody I got on well with because she’d thought of sex as a ‘service’ she couldn’t provide at the time and I’d told her that only a man with the selfishness of a rapist would care more about getting his own rocks off than sharing affection however it suits both. One woman who prefered to be looked on as a _sex object_ providing a service for somebody she loved, but not so different from a man feeling the woman’s satisfaction should matter more than his own. Being a lazy lover is in no way comparable to the motivation of a rapist. And suggesting to someone that their wanting to be wanted is complicit in the moral equivalence of rape, will lose you any number of rational friends. > [@Jerseyman](#): > > Feminists appear to be stuck in the 1950s. The very last thing they believe is equality of the sexes and they are part of the elimination of ‘feminine’ values from society altogether after men started to rediscover them, and to oppose the conservative values demanded of them. Feminists impose those traditional values and prudery on liberated women. Can you point to any feminists arguing for traditional values and prudishness, or equally against equality? > [@Jerseyman](#): > > This is a feminist: [My sexual revolution | Women | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/30/women-gayrights) She makes it clear that for her homosexual ‘Lesbianism’ does not mean actual sex with women, it just means belief in sex with men as ‘traditionally’ subservient and inferior just like Granny said. Julie Bindel defines herself as a lesbian because she and has a female partner, with whom one presumes she may be having sex. She believes that sexuality is a choice not in any way defined by genetics, and that chromosomes have nothing to do with our destiny, which provides some idea as to the less-than-rigorous logic she involves. > [@Jerseyman](#): > > Sexual equality means women enjoying teasing men with sexual thrills as much as men enjoy women’s. It means women making love with men as confident equals instead of frightened inferior feminists. If you can’t say ‘Yes’ (or ask), how can your ‘No’ be trusted? ‘Feminists’ are inferior and frightened? I think a few ‘feminists’ might take issue with this frankly idiotic statement. And people who say ‘no’, without your standard of confidence, can’t be trusted? That’s a rapists wet-dream. I think you need to rethink your sexual philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/122 "2009-09-10T03:28:05Z")
> [@Jerseyman](#): > > Most porn shows women being far more sexual than men could ever be in response to sexual thrills. Can’t for the life of me figure out what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/123 "2009-09-10T03:42:41Z")
**You With The Face** Don’t take pot-shots at me. You didn’t seem to be getting the point earlier on. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/124 "2009-09-10T03:50:47Z")
> [@Jerseyman](#): > > The only time I have ever mad a point of saying that a lot of American porn was ‘misogynist’ in that it shaved women to make them look immature and emphasised anal sex because the men it was aimed at really fear women and prefer boys… Also forgot to pick up on this previously; so men watch heterosexual porn… because they’re really homosexuals who fear women?! Why not just buy gay porn? Can you explain? * * * It would appear that there is some considerable weight of evidence backing the multi-billion dollar financial revenue generated by child pornography, > [@](#): > > Child pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry and among the fastest growing criminal segments on the Internet, according to the USA The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC), the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (ICMEC) and other international sources.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16] New technology such as inexpensive digital cameras and Internet distribution has made it easier than ever before to produce and distribute child pornography. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography) ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/125 "2009-09-10T04:59:41Z")
I want to start off by saying; If I didn’t have porn, I would always have my imagination. So long as\* I\* can imagine, I can, eh, _‘fulfill needs’_. I’m not trying to be presumptuous, I don’t know what other guys require to -hmm- _‘get the job done’._ So long as I can picture women in my head… um, let’s say; _‘I can still focus enough on Jesus’_, (I’m shy about sex so instead of saying what everyone knows I’m going to say, I allude to it.)\* I don’t need ‘porn’. I’m also just one of many different snowflakes in a group that makes up almost half of this world. I don’t speak for all of them, they don’t speak for me. I would also totally support my SO to have the **SAME rights to such material, (yes even if it were all _‘dude’_ oriented, and even if it’s things I’m not into!). She’s allowed her alone time too! Not threatened in the least. \*Though \* a substantial amounts of women I can talk to about this stuff say they’re not into that. Maybe there’s something I could offer in equal to greater value, which imH**o isn’t \*\*\*THAT \*\*\*much. But I know a lot of dudes that wouldn’t stand for their gals lurk’n. I don’t know. So here’s my stats: If I didn’t have bit of TASTEFULL, (relative to what you can find on the net these days – just thought you all should know that --), dose of porn **every-now-and-then** /day; Would I go mad and start doing things to harm others? NO WAY! If I wasn’t allowed to… [cough]‘go #3’[/cough] ever in my life, MIGHT I go mad? Well, um… Define _‘mad’_? Could I harm anyone, in any way, without… _ **"IT"** _,(with my fading, but still prevalent sex-drive/stamina). I’m like… SO \*sure \*about this one… I really don’t think so, _no_! Could the person I harm be anyone **BUT** me, NO WAY! 😃 I mean… the fact that I couldn’t do it, AND I’m not getting laid… it’s not \*just \*the physical aspect, it would be un-just and crule !!! I would have to be a lot more active. That’s for-damn-sure! Though I can be weird about s-e-x talk, I personally find it empowering to be able to handle stuff on my own! Some see it as pathetic… but it does the trick! And I don’t need a gal! And Gals, I hope ya’ll don’t need a guy! \*I also avoid conversations about ‘sex \*with \*Jesus’ ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/126 "2009-09-10T05:06:41Z")
I want to start off by saying; If I didn’t have porn, I would always have my imagination. So long as\* I\* can imagine, I can, eh, _‘fulfill needs’_. I’m not trying to be presumptuous, I don’t know what other guys require to -hmm- _‘get the job done’._ So long as I can picture women in my head… um, let’s say; _‘I can still focus enough on Jesus’_, I’m shy about sex so instead of saying what everyone knows I’m going to say, I allude to it.\* I’m also just one of many different snowflakes in a group that makes up almost half of this world. I don’t speak for all of them, they don’t speak for me. I would also totally support my SO to have the **SAME rights to such material, (yes even if it were all _‘dude’_ oriented, and even if it’s things I’m not into!). She’s allowed her alone time too! Not threatened in the least. \*Though \* a substantial amounts of women I can talk to about this stuff say they’re not into that. Maybe there’s something I could offer in equal to greater value, which imH**o isn’t \*\*\*THAT \*\*\*much. But I know a lot of dudes that wouldn’t stand for their gals lurk’n. I don’t know. So here’s my stats: If I didn’t have bit of TASTEFULL, (relative to what you can find on the net these days – just thought you all should know that --), dose of porn **every-now-and-then** /day; Would I go mad and start doing things to harm others? NO WAY! If I wasn’t allowed to… [cough]‘go #3’[/cough] ever in my life, MIGHT I go mad? Well, um… Define _‘mad’_? Could I harm anyone, in any way, without… _ **"IT"** _,(with my fading, but still prevalent sex-drive/stamina). I’m like… SO \*sure \*about this one… I really don’t think so, _no_! Could the person I harm be anyone **BUT** me, NO WAY! 😃 I mean… the fact that I couldn’t do it, AND I’m not getting laid… it’s not \*just \*the physical aspect, it would be un-just and crule !!! I would have to be a lot more active. That’s for-damn-sure! Though I can be weird about s-e-x talk, I personally find it empowering to be able to handle stuff on my own! Some see it as pathetic… but it does the trick! And I don’t need a gal! And Gals, I hope ya’ll don’t need a guy! \*I also avoid conversations about ‘sex with Jesus’ ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/127 "2009-09-10T05:11:01Z")
ah, sorry for the DP! I wanted to add that last bit about “Gals, I hope ya’ll don’t need a guy!”, (to be PC and such, I’m not a hater), but I may have made some spelling/corrections in the first post and not in the second… I think I could get to know much more ‘about’ a woman, than I ever could getting to know how to type/spell/learn the net/learn different constellations in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/128 "2009-09-10T05:19:43Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > ah, sorry for the DP! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/129 "2009-09-10T06:29:25Z")
Porn title! ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/130 "2009-09-10T09:40:12Z")
Wow… the filth on the minds of you dopers! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/131 "2009-09-10T11:45:10Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > **You With The Face** > > Don’t take pot-shots at me. You didn’t seem to be getting the point earlier on. Dude, WTF is _your_ point? You think that I’m in agreement with most people in this thread (which is arguable, but whatever…I ain’t got time to get in any meta debates), but why make an annoucement about it as if you’re saying something profound? The commentary is wholly superfluous when my overaching point is that the correlation between porn and rape very well may have nothing to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/132 "2009-09-14T21:09:37Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Thats not true. If you go back and read history, lots of rapes were reported, and men caught, and hanged. They could not have been hanged if it hadnt been reported in the first place. Of course they admitted it. Why do you think they gave chase after rapists in the first place? > > Secondly, 150 years ago, unlike today, almost all criminals were caught, well into the 90’s percentile (Almost the oppositte of today) > > According to my “Encyclopedia of Lawmen and Badguys of the 1800’s”, its really hard to find a criminal, any criminal, who wasnt caught or killed. Yeah they always found someone to convict but… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/133 "2009-09-14T21:13:29Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > We even had a poster mention in a thread that he wouldn’t consider a prostitute’s rape to be as tragic as that of a young virgin. Sexist and misogynist attitudes aren’t as bad today, but they’re still around. One of my friends told me that she was date raped and that some people in whom she’s confided have tended to not believe her/not consider it rape. If there are still so many bad attitudes today, I can’t imagine a woman would feel all that comfortable discussing her rape in the 19th century. In many states, it is not only permissible to point out that a rape victim is virtually impossible to convict someone of raping a prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/134 "2009-09-14T21:15:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or a lesbian; I understand that not so long ago “corrective rapes”, where one or more men would rape a lesbian to try to “turn her straight” were ignored by the police. Assuming that it wasn’t the police doing it. A practice widespread even these days in places like [South Africa](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/12/eudy-simelane-corrective-rape-south-africa). Are you for serious? Its seems a bit counterproductive no? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/135 "2009-09-14T21:16:43Z")
The 85% drop in rape is great, but too bad we had to turn into a nation of shameless, compulsive jerkoffs in order to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/136 "2009-09-14T21:21:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > As often as the old adage “correlation doesn’t equal causation” is mentioned here, I’m surprised that to see I’m the first to say it. I thought the OP’s point was that increase in porn did not equal increase in rape as people had predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/137 "2009-09-15T01:22:14Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > The 85% drop in rape is great, but too bad we had to turn into a nation of shameless, compulsive jerkoffs in order to get there. I consider it an improvement over being a nation of shameful, compulsive jerkoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151/138 "2009-09-15T12:12:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Please read Post #4. Numerous studies in different countries have been performed and all found no link between pornography and increased violence towards women. > > So, we know that porn does not lead to violence. I don’t think we know that either, if rape is as under-reported a crime [as it is sometimes asserted to be.](http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml) Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-we-feminists-wrong-rape-is-down-85-while-porn-use-is-up-and-up/509151.md?page=6)