# Were you surprised by the backlash from Kaepernick, other athletes kneeling vs. the public **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146 "2019-10-22T17:20:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/41 "2019-10-23T00:39:04Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Ever since 2016, in the midst of the still controversial Trump vs. Clinton presidential race, when NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick sat down and later down the season kneeled during the American national anthem in his protest against racial injustices towards blacks and policing issues, America has been in a 2010s cultural war over race and culture. > [@Nava](#): > > You think it wasn’t before? Our new account-holder knows only what was taught in the classes about _American Race War and Weakness it Represents to be Exploited by Own Glorious Nation_. This thread is a middling effort. Despite the operative’s best efforts, no Americans participating in the thread are likely to get particularly riled up or rendered less likely to vote (a key objective of those tasked with exacerbating “racial tensions in America”). The claim that “most White head coaches and sports executives…have voiced anger at Kaepernick” is clumsy and easily disproven, for example. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Most White head coaches and sports executives are opposed and have voiced anger at Kaepernick and that cause. > Three years later, are you surprised by the backlash? And the operative’s command of English is desperately in need of improvement: > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Maybe they don’t want that distractions in the locker room. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Privately, probably some was fuming. > > I know if they were still coaching, Mike Ditka won’t put up for it. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > There is two sides to this complex conversation. Lastly, whoever it is at 55 Savushkina (or wherever this person works), who is convinced that the way to blend in among Americans is to include some entertainment or sports-icon reference in the username, is just wrong. This naming habit simply makes the operative’s non-American status stand out like the proverbial sore thumb. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/42 "2019-10-23T00:47:35Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > If they really wanted to disrespect the flag they’d turn their backs to it. When has kneeling ever signified disrespect? Not to me, but to a lot of people, especially a lot of white people, it did. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/43 "2019-10-23T00:52:51Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > As another military retiree, I have this to say about them: They are liars and fuck them. > > I also find myself wondering what would have happened had a white player started this protest. I mean look at Teebow’s stunt of kneeling in the end zone (do I remember that correctly?). > > There is no question in reality that the backlash against the players is racist, just like what they are protesting. A white player would probably be attacked too. Look at Megan Rapinoe. In a sense, yes it has racial tones. There are double standards, but that is how things go in America. Some people see things differently, I don’t know. This is a good discussion that a lot of people should have. > **[US women's soccer star explains why she's not participating in national anthem](https://www.today.com/news/megan-rapinoe-won-t-participate-national-anthem-during-world-cup-t156389)** > > One of the soccer squad's biggest stars has caught the attention of World Cup fans for a reason other than the game. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/44 "2019-10-23T01:14:39Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > But, you see, we soldiers fought to defend that flag. Not the Constitution or citizens of the USA, but a strip of fabric. Yeah, I know that’s what the idiots believe. Just for fun, [here is the oath of enlistment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment): > [@](#): > > I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." and [here is the commissioned officer’s oath taken by Chief Warrant Officers (W2~W5) and Commissioned Officers (O1-O11/we don’t currently have living O-11)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office): > [@](#): > > I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. For both oaths “So help me God” is omited when the person, as I did for my entire career, affirms instead of swearing. Those of us who understand the English language (i.e., not Trump) will readily see there’s not a word about the flag in those oaths. > [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > The same strip of fabric that Trump dry-humped for the cameras. Well, I suspect that MAGAts would, despite the look on his face, claim he was just hugging it. > > But you know that even just hugging the flag is damned disrespectful. Yeah. Do a search for “Reaction to Trump hugging the flag”. You get a lot of stuff on both sides, but the supporters are really into it and their usual chants. The bastard can do no wrong. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > They don’t have to see it. I believe if you want to protest the national anthem by kneeling to voice discontent towards race issues in America, fine. > > But also, don’t be surprised if the coach and the management decides to trade you to another team or cuts you. > > A lot of coaches don’t want the distraction. A lot of them think you can probably do it on your own time, they say. > > That is what Tortorella, Krupinsky, and the other white coaches feel. > > As for Kaepernick, he is 32, I don’t think he will ever play again in the NFL, but he will probably continue as a social activist. Are you not aware that the NFL and the players union have a collective bargaining agreement? Are you not aware that the players can only be disciplined as dictated in said agreement? The coaches’ feelings, AFAIA, are not terms of the agreement. As to Kaeperick’s age, that’s irrelevant to the issue at hand. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Yes, since Texas is fairly conservative-leaning; doesn’t necessarily mean that all conservatives see the anthem issue this way, I know that Jerry Jones and his children, Cowboys executives are Republicans…they’ve donated to the Bushes, Phil Gramm, Ted Cruz, Chris Christie. > > They probably do lean culturally conservative, so yes, if Dak Prescott or Ezekiel Elliot decided to kneel, yes, they would probably be cut from the team or benched. See above re collective bargaining. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, you certainly have a way of moving the goalposts - er, hockey net around. > > First, the anthem is about respecting our military. Then it’s about winning championships. Now it’s about fans and white hockey players liking Trump. > > Any other white sports guys you’d like to refer to as the experts on race in America? Isn’t that the way it always is in America? A minority’s issue isn’t an issue unless a prominent member of the majority addresses the issue, and usually addresses it negatively. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Bit of a hijack, but that “disrespectful to the military” shit always pisses me off. > > Disagreeing with government policy, or believing that our society is not entirely free of racism, is not disrespectful to the military. Unless the protester/kneeler/whatever is specifically protesting about the military, it has nothing to do with the military. > > Do these coaches think that the mere presence of the military (of which there’s far too much at football games) means that no one may protest anything, lest they show disrespect for the military? > > And who the fuck cares if it’s disrespectful to the military, anyway? We don’t have a military government. The military has nothing to do with the running of our country. > > Fuck those coaches. And fuck the idea of “respect” for the military (by which these coaches seem to mean groveling and obsequiousness). Trump sure as hell wants the country to be a dictatorship supported by a military completely subservient to him. That’s the message of his military Independence Day parade [del]through Red Square[/del] [del]through Kim Il Sung Square[/del] [del]down Chang’an Avenue[/del] down Indepence Avenue. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Thank you for your service. > > You have the right to feel that way about them, just like how Tortorella and Krupinsky has the right to feel about the anthem or whatever concerns them. > > There is two sides to this complex conversation. > > Tortorella has a son in the U.S. Armed Forces, so there is probably a reason why he feels this way towards the protests, although yes, Trump and the right misconstrued Kaepernick’s message. > > [U.S. World Cup coach John Tortorella stands behind anthem comments - ESPN](https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17487174/us-world-cup-coach-john-tortorella-stands-anthem-comments) > > [https://www.dispatch.com/sports/20190118/blue-jackets--military-special-to-coach-john-tortorella](https://www.dispatch.com/sports/20190118/blue-jackets--military-special-to-coach-john-tortorella) I don’t give a rat’s smelly behind how they feel. The issue is their dishonest portrayal of the protest, not following the collective bargaining agreement, and the illegal connivance of owners to deny a man employment with the league. > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > If they really wanted to disrespect the flag they’d turn their backs to it. When has kneeling ever signified disrespect? When Black man (or one who has one white parent and one Black parent) does it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/45 "2019-10-23T01:16:19Z")
All you’re really showing is that some straight white men will go to great lengths to denigrate people who aren’t straight white men. This is a common theme in our history. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/46 "2019-10-23T01:35:34Z")
The “champ” needs to look up the word [started](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/start). ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/47 "2019-10-23T01:40:25Z")
There’s some suggestion that the first time he sat it was more of him pouting over losing the starting QB job than a protest. Regardless, it turned it a protest movement in 2016. The problem with a guy like Kap or the religious zealot Tebow is that you become a distraction. No team wants their backup QB holding press conferences unless they’ve just rescued some kids from a burning building. Sports isn’t fair, you really have to be an absolute elite for a coach to put up with you being a distraction. I’d say this goes double for football where every game matters. I think most coaches, regardless of their political leanings, want their backup QB to be pretty anonymous. I do agree that Trump and Pence exploited the issue by reopening the wounds in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/48 "2019-10-23T01:54:38Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > There’s some suggestion that the first time he sat it was more of him pouting over losing the starting QB job than a protest. Regardless, it turned it a protest movement in 2016. Suggested by whom? > [@](#): > > The problem with a guy like Kap or the religious zealot Tebow is that you become a distraction. No team wants their backup QB holding press conferences unless they’ve just rescued some > kids from a burning building. > > Sports isn’t fair, you really have to be an absolute elite for a coach to put up with you being a distraction. I’d say this goes double for football where every game matters. I think most coaches, regardless of their political leanings, want their backup QB to be pretty anonymous. Nonsense. None of what you talked about here has anything to do with on-field performance. > [@](#): > > I do agree that Trump and Pence exploited the issue by reopening the wounds in 2017. Well, you did get that part right. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/49 "2019-10-23T03:19:37Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Not to me, but to a lot of people, especially a lot of white people, it did. So, were you surprised by the backlash? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/50 "2019-10-23T08:20:35Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > If they really wanted to disrespect the flag they’d turn their backs to it. When has kneeling ever signified disrespect? This. At the time (and even now) I was amazed at just how many people were enraged by someone having the audacity to KNEEL. The pearl-clutching, gasping, and foul language were jaw-dropping. WTF? I just didn’t get it. I still don’t get it. How can kneeling, in silence, be so horrifying? How is it disrespectful? Why does _kneeling_, of all things, cause such offense? If you kneel in church, or in prayer, are you disrespecting God? No? Then how is kneeling in another context such a horrible disrespect? The only thing I can think of is that it’s not so much the kneeling that offends but that someone is having the audacity to point out a serious flaw in our society. How dare he (metaphorically) speak out! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/51 "2019-10-23T11:29:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > This. > > At the time (and even now) I was amazed at just how many people were enraged by someone having the audacity to KNEEL. The pearl-clutching, gasping, and foul language were jaw-dropping. WTF? > > I just didn’t get it. I still don’t get it. How can kneeling, in silence, be so horrifying? How is it disrespectful? Why does _kneeling_, of all things, cause such offense? > > If you kneel in church, or in prayer, are you disrespecting God? No? Then how is kneeling in another context such a horrible disrespect? > > The only thing I can think of is that it’s not so much the kneeling that offends but that someone is having the audacity to point out a serious flaw in our society. How dare he (metaphorically) speak out! On top of that, the kneeling was something he decided to do after consulting with an actual combat veteran. What pisses me off also is the condemnation of the protestors for daring to protest, said condemnation painting them as anti-military and thus anti-America. In reality they are displaying the best of American values, to wit protesting injustice. And kneeling is not disrespectful unless it’s a Black person doing it in such a manner it points out the flaws of the privileged to the privileged. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/52 "2019-10-23T11:47:09Z")
> [@Yankees 1996 Champs](#): > > Most White head coaches and sports executives are opposed and have voiced anger at Kaepernick… > > most Americans and Canadians don’t want to hear that stuff during sporting events… > > to a lot of people, especially a lot of white people, it did. It really is great to know we have amongst us the voice of authority on what white people, Americans and Canadians believe! Normally I’d ask for some sort of cite, but when it comes from one as confident of their stance as you who needs facts? > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Usually, “bombastic” is used as a pejorative. I’m not sure what you mean here Typo. He meant boombastic, he’s a massive Shaggy fan. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/53 "2019-10-23T12:19:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > So, were you surprised by the backlash? Of course this make surprised. He is A number one USA sports fan, as shown by hat! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/54 "2019-10-23T12:46:02Z")
I wouldn’t have done the kneeling thing but I’m not a fan of forced involvement in political or religious ceremonies. That said, I wasn’t too surprised by the backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/55 "2019-10-23T12:50:44Z")
Not surprised. Recent political history has shown how incredibly racist, hateful, and tribal this country is. Of course he’d be vilified. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/56 "2019-10-23T13:39:05Z")
I do like the irony in the idea that we should listen to the views of some minor league hockey coach because he’s also a cop… _when Kaepernick was protesting how Black Americans are treated by cops._ ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/57 "2019-10-23T13:49:03Z")
Yeah, not surprised. Black man doing something…white man get offended. Real shocker. I wish they would solve this whole “issue” by stop playing the anthem before games. Games are too long as it is and this just adds to it. They don’t play an anthem before most other public events, why certain sporting events? It’s not a requirement in the pocket constitution, is it? Or, maybe that’s what the second half of the 2nd amendment is all about? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/58 "2019-10-23T13:56:51Z")
I was not surprised that right wingers took a protest against police brutality of black Americans as unpatriotic, while refusing to confront police brutality. Quite predictable, actually. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/59 "2019-10-23T13:58:09Z")
I can’t imagine having enough time on my hands that I could be concerned with what other people do during the national anthem. Stand, sit, salute, flip it off, or masturbate like a motherfucker- I just don’t care what you do. It’s all freedom of expression. People died in combat so that we could be free to act how we want, not free to act how anyone else demands us to. Of course I wasn’t surprised. Far too much flag worship and military worship in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146/60 "2019-10-23T14:28:53Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Yeah, not surprised. Black man doing something…white man get offended. Real shocker. > > I wish they would solve this whole “issue” by stop playing the anthem before games. Games are too long as it is and this just adds to it. They don’t play an anthem before most other public events, why certain sporting events? It’s not a requirement in the pocket constitution, is it? Or, maybe that’s what the second half of the 2nd amendment is all about? Nah, standing for the anthem is clearly part of the FIRST half of the amendment. It’s what a well regulated militia is all about! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-you-surprised-by-the-backlash-from-kaepernick-other-athletes-kneeling-vs-the-public/842146.md?page=4)