# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 110
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2181 "2007-04-09T18:44:16Z")
\*\*11- JSexton \*\*- (FCoD, Suburban Plankton. Rysto, zuma, ArizonaTeach, StarvingButStrong, Menocchio,Fretful Porpentine, Pygmy Rugger, Pleonast, MTS) \*\*8 - Fern Forest \*\*- (brewha, JSexton, kat, lakai, glee, Malacandra, Augecheek, kivvik) \*\*4 - Suburban plankton \*\*– (BM, queuing, glee, pimaspinner) In case anyone wanted to know… ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2182 "2007-04-09T18:45:12Z")
You know what hurts? Banging my head on the desk. unvote JSexton vote Suburban Plankton Good luck to whoever’s keeping the spreadsheet of votes and unvotes, because today’s gonna be a mess. If JSexton is the doctor, I seriously, seriously propose we look very hard at all the people who were so vehemently opposed to the idea in the last several posts. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2183 "2007-04-09T18:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] \*\*11- JSexton \*\*- (FCoD, Suburban Plankton. Rysto, zuma, ArizonaTeach, StarvingButStrong, Menocchio,Fretful Porpentine, Pygmy Rugger, Pleonast, MTS) \*\*8 - Fern Forest \*\*- (brewha, JSexton, kat, lakai, glee, Malacandra, Augecheek, kivvik) \*\*4 - Suburban plankton \*\*– (BM, queuing, glee, pimaspinner) In case anyone wanted to know… [/QUOTE] You have glee twice Fern Forest only has 7. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2184 "2007-04-09T18:49:08Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] \*\*11- JSexton \*\*- (FCoD, Suburban Plankton. Rysto, zuma, ArizonaTeach, StarvingButStrong, Menocchio,Fretful Porpentine, Pygmy Rugger, Pleonast, MTS) \*\*8 - Fern Forest \*\*- (brewha, JSexton, kat, lakai, glee, Malacandra, Augecheek, kivvik) \*\*4 - Suburban plankton \*\*– (BM, queuing, glee, pimaspinner) In case anyone wanted to know… [/QUOTE] Actually, after looking at that, and thinking it might be better off to get rid of Fern than hope that enough people unvote JSexton, I am changing my vote YET AGAIN! unvote Suburban Plankton vote Fern Forest. This should be JSexton=10, Fern Forest=8 (after seeing NAF’s resply). Just two more switches from JSexton and the Doc (maybe) will be saved. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2185 "2007-04-09T18:51:55Z")
Well, I still don’t think \*\*Fern Forest \*\* is scum, but at this point, I’d rather lynch her than **JSexton** … of course, I still think **Suburban Plankton** is the best lynch candidate, but I’ll switch to **Fern Forest** if it means we can protect our beat cop for at least one more night. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2186 "2007-04-09T18:52:12Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] You have glee twice Fern Forest only has 7. [/QUOTE] And 12 for Jsexton - Monkey Mensch voted in post 2149. On preview now 11 for Jsexton, and 8 for Fern Forest. I am keeping up with this post by post. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2187 "2007-04-09T18:57:26Z")
If you think Suburban is the better choice, I would say leave your vote as him for right now. We still have 5 hours. So unless you can’t get back between then and now, leave it, and maybe the other people will change with us. I will be at my computer for another 2 hours, but then I will be away. If JSexton is still in the lead, and FernForest second, I will change at that time. As stated better FF then the doc. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2188 "2007-04-09T19:00:07Z")
Let’s get something a bit more official up here. 10- JSexton - (FCoD, Suburban Plankton, Rysto, zuma, StarvingButStrong, Menocchio, Fretful Porpentine, Pygmy Rugger, Pleonast, Monkey Mench) 8- Fern Forest - (brewha, JSexton, kat, lakai, Malacandra, Augecheek, kivvik, ArizonaTeach) 4- Suburban Plankton - (Blaster Master, Queuing, glee, pimmaspinner) 1- Flying Cow of Doom - (hocow) 1- MadTheSwine - (Autolycus) 1- pimaspinner - (Storyteller0910) ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2189 "2007-04-09T19:12:48Z")
The test for JSexton is simple. He does the random protection on me and pimaspinner or just on pimaspinner. At that point, knowing he’s not protected and likely the doctor (assuming he isn’t mafia), the mafia would be retarded not to target him tonight. That is, if we lynch him today, we’re doing their work for them and the mafia essentially HAVE to kill him if he’s not mafia, otherwise they’ll never be able to kill our cop. So why not let the mafia do our dirty work for us for once. Thus, I propose this plan: Lynch **Fern Forest \*\* or Suburban Plankton. JSexton, if he is doc, makes his choice between me and pimaspinner with whatever weight he wants. I target** FCOD\*\*, and FCOD targets me. And **pimaspinner** should investigate whichever one of the above lynch candidates doesn’t get lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2190 "2007-04-09T19:22:57Z")
I don’t like it – I don’t believe the role-claim for a moment – but I’ll go along with it. Unvote JSexton Vote Suburban Plankton I would vote for **storytellter0910** , but I’d prefer to vote for someone who has a chance of being lynched. I think that **Fern Forest** should wait until **JSexton** ’s claim has been tried. One thing I don’t like about this is that if **JSexton** really is the Doctor, the Mafia could leave him alone and then we’ll end up lynching him tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2191 "2007-04-09T19:24:31Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] The test for JSexton is simple. He does the random protection on me and pimaspinner or just on pimaspinner. At that point, knowing he’s not protected and likely the doctor (assuming he isn’t mafia), the mafia would be retarded not to target him tonight. That is, if we lynch him today, we’re doing their work for them and the mafia essentially HAVE to kill him if he’s not mafia, otherwise they’ll never be able to kill our cop. So why not let the mafia do our dirty work for us for once. Thus, I propose this plan: Lynch **Fern Forest \*\* or Suburban Plankton. JSexton, if he is doc, makes his choice between me and pimaspinner with whatever weight he wants. I target** FCOD\*\*, and FCOD targets me. And **pimaspinner** should investigate whichever one of the above lynch candidates doesn’t get lynched. [/QUOTE] This sounds good to me. Basically JSexton is dead tonight, or tomorrow we lynch him. I suppose this doesn’t account for the Miller blocking a scum, and the roll actually blocking the kill, but I am willing to play with those odds. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2192 "2007-04-09T19:28:50Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] The test for JSexton is simple. He does the random protection on me and pimaspinner or just on pimaspinner. At that point, knowing he’s not protected and likely the doctor (assuming he isn’t mafia), the mafia would be retarded not to target him tonight. That is, if we lynch him today, we’re doing their work for them and the mafia essentially HAVE to kill him if he’s not mafia, otherwise they’ll never be able to kill our cop. So why not let the mafia do our dirty work for us for once. [/QUOTE] This doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t the Doctor more important than a Beat Cop? Why would he agree to give himself up to the Mafia tonight? –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2193 "2007-04-09T19:31:57Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] One thing I don’t like about this is that if **JSexton** really is the Doctor, the Mafia could leave him alone and then we’ll end up lynching him tomorrow. [/QUOTE] I think that’s a possibility, but a small one. Why would they want to wait for us to lynch him tomorrow, even if they do prove he was telling the truth, they then have unrestricted access to any future claims, which means tomorrow they kill **pimaspinner** , and the next day they kill me. Regardless, it really seems in the best interest of the mafia to kill him, especially since the only way for him to prove himself to us is to protect **pimaspinner**. It sucks if he really is the doctor, but an outed doctor is pretty much useless to us, at least compared to a cop, because the mafia have a VERY short list of who he is potentially protecting. Maybe a cop could investigate him and prove he is the doctor, thus even if he doesn’t die tonight, he may still be able to prove useful tomorrow if he’s telling the truth, or we lynch him (if the mafia decides to gambit that we’ll lynch him if they don’t kill him). The problem with that, of course, is we waste the cop we’re specifically sacrificing the doctor to save, and then asking him to try to protect the cop. So really, it’s probably a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2194 "2007-04-09T19:33:05Z")
Guys we don’t have much time to get the Suburban Plankton bandwagon started. Get your votes toward Fern Forest now. He hasn’t claimed a role and we shouldn’t expect him to at his final hour. > [@](#): > > ``` > What a load of hogshit. > > ``` > > Isn’t it obvious? chrisk/JSexton has been suspicious since the very beginning, and now he’s just trying to save his ass with an unverifiable role claim. At least I’m willing to die to prove my role, but we can’t afford to lose the one and only Doctor in that fashion. > > It’s a load of crap, if you ask me. Too little too late. My vote stands. > > –FCOD This pretty much says Jsexton is really the Doc if FCOD is mafia. Waiting for tomorrow to find out is better than risking it and lynching him now. And what’s this BS about FCOD willing to die? If he is the miller he will live. He has his mind set on dying because he knows he is finished. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2195 "2007-04-09T19:33:47Z")
[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom] This doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t the Doctor more important than a Beat Cop? Why would he agree to give himself up to the Mafia tonight? –FCOD [/QUOTE] IMO, no. The only good a doctor does is keep other people alive, while a beat cop gathers info that is at least 50/50. Info is what we need. If we lose the beat cop we wouldn’t have found you, and while you claim to be a miller, that will be found out. The cop can tell us tomorrow who is and isn’t a citizen. We hope at least. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2196 "2007-04-09T19:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom] This doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t the Doctor more important than a Beat Cop? Why would he agree to give himself up to the Mafia tonight? [/QUOTE] Because, if he’s telling the truth, it’s a 50/50 chance between himself and pimaspinner who he’s protecting. If the doctor dies, we still get one more night investigation from **pimaspinner** ; if the cop dies, who is worth protecting then… me, the VIG? But I’m still not worth as much as the cop, because I HAVE to kill. In other words, the cop is useful with or without the doctor, but the doctor is worth less every time a power role dies. Essentially, once **pimaspinner** is dead, the doctor isn’t worth nearly as much because we don’t have any “super useful” power roles to protect. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2197 "2007-04-09T19:37:35Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] IMO, no. The only good a doctor does is keep other people alive, while a beat cop gathers info that is at least 50/50. Info is what we need. If we lose the beat cop we wouldn’t have found you, and while you claim to be a miller, that will be found out. The cop can tell us tomorrow who is and isn’t a citizen. We hope at least. [/QUOTE] We possibly have another cop. We have only one doctor. Once the doctor is gone, the cops won’t last very long. I think it’d be better to keep our doctor around… And dammit, how many times do I have to say, I’m not worried about **Blaster Master** killing me… –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2198 "2007-04-09T19:42:23Z")
We possibly have a GA as well. Who can use DOC powers 1 time, for 2 people. Hopefully this will be used on the 2 cops. Its all we have left really. And who honestly believes JSexton more then Pimaspinner? I sure as hell don’t. So I am willing to take the risk he dies and is the doc. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2199 "2007-04-09T19:43:15Z")
Oh _no…_ All right. I don’t like this, and I don’t believe either **FlyingCowOfDoom** ’s or **JSexton** ’s role claim for a minute, but I think it’s only fair to test all the claims without acting rashly, and these both strike me as eminently testable. Thus: Unvote JSexton Vote SuburbanPlankton, who strikes me as marginally more likely to be scum than **FernForest** (and if either of them claims to be the Guardian Angel, I shall scream). First night: Vig-kill FCOD and have him block **Blaster Master** , as planned. If he survives, great, accept his claim. Meanwhile, have **pimaspinner** investigate **JSexton**. If he does, in fact, come up as Doctor or Mafia, go with that – it’s not absolutely conclusive, but I think we’ve got to play the odds if we’re going to have any chance of getting anything done. Second night: If **pimaspinner** ’s results are inconclusive and **JSexton** is still alive, Vig-kill him and have him use his doctor powers to protect himself. Some may object that this is tantamount to giving the Mafia a free hand to kill one of the other players in power roles, but unfortunately I don’t see any way to avoid this, and it’s _probably_\* better to risk losing one of the other players than to kill the Doctor ourselves. If anybody sees any additional flaws in this plan, speak up – I _think_ it covers everything, but I’m increasingly sure I don’t understand this game. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2200 "2007-04-09T19:46:25Z")
\*\*JSexton \*\* and \*\*Fern Forest \*\* are now tied with 8 votes each. **Suburban Plankton** has 6 votes. Remember if the day ends in a tie I will randomly choose between the two candidates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=109) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=111)