# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 146
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2901 "2007-04-18T15:15:29Z")
You guys post too fast. I have been putting this together previewing and changing it for the last 15 minutes! 5- MadTheSwine - (Pleonast, pimma, rysto, Malacandra, cowgir, storyteller) 4- Aguecheek - (Menocchio, sturmhauke, Pygmy Rugger, kat) 3- Queuing - (Aguecheek, Fretful Porpentine, Arizona Teach) 3- Malacandra - (Queuing, hocow) 1- brewha - (monkeymench) roughly 2.5 hours till end of day. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2902 "2007-04-18T15:19:06Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] The cop role is too easy for Mafia to hide in. I’m tempted to see **Ague** hang and then base tomorrow’s lynch on the result. Meanwhile, our other cop can investigate **Q**. On the other hand, I’m still mostly suspicious of the lurkers and no-voters. We need to put more pressure on them. Since there’s been a vote, unvote **hocow**. Next on my lurker’s list of doom is lynch **MadTheSwine**. You need to vote, like it or not. **Rysto** , I’m looking at you, too. [/QUOTE] I am still undecided,rest assured I will vote. I have a question for **pima** in this post [post=8453805]#2371[/post],you say that you have a good idea who the other beat cop is(if there is one)was \*\*Aguecheek \*\* who you suspected? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2903 "2007-04-18T15:20:04Z")
I will join the vote MadTheSwine bandwagon. I guess. It’s not like I’m really suspicious of him but A) I really think Malacandra and Queuing are town, and I’m giving Aguecheek time for his claim to be probed. b) At least a couple of confirmed townies are voting for him. Weak, but I got nothing better right now. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2904 "2007-04-18T15:24:07Z")
Good god,I have no defense at all guys,I am just a townie. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2905 "2007-04-18T15:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] I am still undecided,rest assured I will vote. I have a question for **pima** in this post [post=8453805]#2371[/post],you say that you have a good idea who the other beat cop is(if there is one)was \*\*Aguecheek \*\* who you suspected? [/QUOTE] No, but I have been wrong before. :rolleyes: :smack: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2906 "2007-04-18T15:25:43Z")
Yeah, don’t forget that **pima** is wrong on 50% of his hunches. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2907 "2007-04-18T15:27:09Z")
By the way guys, this is likely to be the last post I make until the end of the next Day. Let **NAF** know if you want me replaced. Good luck, all. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2908 "2007-04-18T15:28:53Z")
I do want to point out that way back on day night two I was protected by the Doc and there were only two kills that night,I think the mafia may have tried to kill me being a former player. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2909 "2007-04-18T15:29:11Z")
Nothing posts: 43, 161, 212, 235, 246, 247, 292, 334, 371, 501, 564, 567, 1050, 1320, 1630, 1648, 1679, 1850, 2148, 2263, 2264, 2268, 2306, 2310, 2389, 2394, 2354, 2358, 2542, 2659, 2684, 2718, 2834 Post 284 -says he is a noob at this game, quotes brewha who had FOS’d him, says he is puzzled along with rysto why the VIG is targeting experienced player Post 325 -uses word analysis, but its only about the rules Post 476 -asks to be allowed to catch up and will add later (but doesn’t ever it seems) Post 546 -12 hour countdown vote Post 578 -suggests DOC should be self protecting Post 587 -agrees that menecchio is crumb Post 697 -some math (20% more apparently), talks about likelihood of target overlap -mentions trust/distrust list recommends just distrust list -FOS chrisk, brewha (for his weak accusation of MM) and aguecheek for Sturhmauke Post 703 -votes for aguecheek Post 704 -doesn’t unvote, mentions chrisk bandwagon and votes for brewha Post 710 -now he unvotes, but its chrisk not aguecheek Post 711 -finally gets it right and unvotes aguecheek (somewhat odd all of these errors, could be scum ensuring a vote for non-scum gets there, or could just be errors) Post 722 -quotes brewha FOS him (brewha doesn’t give a very eloquent reason why) and MM gives no real defense Post 1002 -says he will catch up and vote later Post 1025 -here comes the later, he still is on same list of suspects (brewha, chrisk, aguecheek) however he drops chrisk, and adds Queuing. Still FOS on aguecheek for FOS of sturmhauke, unvotes brewha votes aguecheek Post 1109 -unvotes aguecheek, no reasons given, says needs to read Post 1314 -in the midst of day 2, votes for me, wants confirmation that BM has no wriggle room and must kill as town says, then conditional votes for Gadarene if I am scum, Zuma if I am not Post 1412 -unvotes queuing, and says wow Post 1528 -confused about conditional kills, as were a lot of people, this was in the Zuma being troublesome about the orders to kill BM phase Post 1537 -votes for me again, no reasons given Post 1694 -answers why he didn’t vote 1st night, reason given caught by the speed of the vote -for bandwagon votes says had all 3 on his list from the beginning (which is true as he had brewha, aguecheek and me on that list) -is also accused of plotting with nesta, cuts and paste some posts from himself, no real defense given, says he will read and be upfront with his suspects Post 1706 -says he just read from page 5 (possible this post comes 2.5 hrs after last), says to look at pg 31, and takes me off his scum list due to nesta lumping me in with gadarene -scum list in the morning Post 1736 -it is a pretty long post, but doesn’t say much IMO. Is worried about BM killing him Post 1805 -quotes aguecheek FOSing him, says posts need to be read in context, and says no one is a noob anymore due to day 2 Post 1848 -something about Sir Andrew, after aguecheek had voted for him, no defense ( I am assuming this is a joke I don’t get) Post 1859 -hocow votes for MM, due to post 1848, as she saw it as a surrender, he says its just a mistake Post 1935 -FOS me for my de-emphasis of the SK worry, agrees that my reasoning hangs together, but doesn’t like conclusion, as wants SK killed ASAP -smitty for low post count -JSexton for thinking BM was SK -votes for Queuing Post 1944 -I clarified my reasoning re: not worrying about SK that night, he thanks but doesn’t unvote Post 1953 -unvotes queuing, no reasons given Post 2071 -votes for FCOD Post 2149 -happy that we had a plan (this was before JSexton DR claim), unvotes FCOD, votes for JSexton and VIGs FCOD Post 2219 -quotes me as I had FOS’d him along with SP what I said was this: Monkey Mensch for this very odd vote,here hours after FCOD had claimed -he just said he didn’t have time to read thread Post 2244 -unvotes JSexton Post 2226 -votes for SP Post 2411 -says he has reread thread -votes for auto, says because of his talk and the analysis -even though claims to have read thread needs to go back to read Pimaspinners in context -no analysis of his own Post 2748 -claims to have read the thread again, finds something brewha said interesting in post 2355 which says “I would think that the Doc would be a much higher target to the mafia than a mason. I point the FOS squarely at JSexton!” -MM says he doesn’t like the quick accusations of Brewha and votes for brewha again Post 2765 -brewha answer the vote, MM says thanks but doesn’t unvote So what do I get out of this? Well the first thing that strikes me is the large number of “nothing posts” (for clarification I put drinking posts, joke posts and rule clarification posts here generally). He has 33 of them out of a total of 70 posts. This is the highest percent yet. The second thing that strikes me is the constant FOSing and voting for brewha. Brewha for the most part hasn’t struck anybody else as much of anything. This could of course mean many things, but I find it odd. Much like I found it odd that glee kept coming up in a lot of the known scum’s posts. So why is MM picking on him? Because he knows he isn’t scum, and its an easy target? Because he knows he is scum and this gives the impression of voting while doing very little? Because he has picked up on something the rest of us have missed? The most likely, IMO, would be one of the first 2 options. The 3rd thing that strikes me is that he claims to have read the thread numerous times, one of the only people to make this claim. Yet he provides little to no analysis that is new and refreshing. I would think someone who has read the thread that many times would have picked up on something. I suppose he may have, brewha, and that would explain my 2nd point, but the only evidence he gives is post 2355 in post 2748. I would think the scum would have left a trail a little longer then that. I know some of you are picking on cowgirl because she is using old posts, but I don’t understand why. Old posts are the only thing we have to go on. So in conclusion, I think we have a scum here. Who needs to be investigated in no particular order according to me: glee brewha monkeymensch (if we lynch MtS today) pygmy rugger malacandara ON preview: I see no reason to replace Rysto. Mostly because lord I have no idea who would actually want to join in this game. Unless Rysto is scum, then modkill him 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2910 "2007-04-18T15:30:48Z")
I haven’t had time to reread the entire thread since I went for Autolycus. :smack: I suggest that there may be the following numbers in the game - first what the referee posted (bolding mine): > [@NAF1138](#): > > **Mafia** -these are the bad guys. **There may be as many as 10 of them**. They can talk to each other, but only at night. During the day they pass themselves off as townies. They vote to kill one person a night, but may vote no kill. > **Godfather-** The head mafia member. In case of a tie in the night kill vote the Godfather decides. Godfather shows up as a regular townie if investigated, will survive being targeted for night kill by the Vigilante. > **The Miller** - The miller is a role blocker, they select a person each night to stop from using their role assignment. The Miller is pro town, but will show up as scum if investigated. **There can be up to 2 millers** > Cops - there are 2 kinds of cop, detective and beat cop. Detectives are always right when they investigate, beat cops are only right 50% of the time. Cops cannot talk outside of the game. **There can be up to 3 cops**. > **Serial Killer** - anti town AND anti mafia player, may kill each night, but does not have to. SK wins if they are still alive at endgame. > **Vigilante** - pro town player who selects one person to kill each night. The vigilante must kill every night in search of the serial killer. > If the vigilante kills the serial killer the Vigilante becomes an ordinary citizen and a confirmed townie. If the SK is lynched or Mob Killed, the Vigilante becomes a citizen but does not get public confirmation of town status. > **Masons** - Ordinary citizens, but they each know the identity of the others. They may not speak outside of the game. **There may be up to 6 masons**. > **The Doctor** - May chose one person each night to save from being night killed. If investigated they show up as the Doctor. > **Guardian Angel** - A one shot deal. May chose 2 people to protect on a single night, but can only use this ability once. If investigated shows up as an Ordinary Citizen. Given that we think there are less than 10 Mafia (otherwise they could do a lynch by themselves!); we know there are 4 Masons out of 6; no Millers have turned up (that I remember): I suggest that there are only 2 cops out of 3 and either Pimaspinner or Aguecheek are fibbing. Can Cops identify each other? If so, can we have a confirmation / denial?! Next I don’t know who to vote for. So I’m going with a suggestion from confirmed Townies … vote MadThe Swine ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2911 "2007-04-18T15:32:56Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] Who needs to be investigated in no particular order according to me: glee brewha monkeymensch (if we lynch MtS today) pygmy rugger malacandara [/QUOTE] Please do analyse my posts. 🆒 I have tried hard not to post nothing stuff! ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2912 "2007-04-18T15:37:25Z")
Something else that occurred to me (as I considered the possibility of getting lunched (again) tonight) - have we given thought to who the mafia killed, and why? Would it be worth going through the FOS/voting records of people who have been nightkilled? The presence of the SK will complicate things, no doubt, but it still might be meaningful. Just a few more straws to grasp at … If you think it’s worthwhile let me know and I’ll have a go at it “tomorrow.” ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2913 "2007-04-18T15:41:38Z")
Personally I think it is a great idea. Any analysis is worthwhile IMO. As you say it might be hard due to the presence of the SK, but what the hell? Go for it! ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2914 "2007-04-18T15:42:05Z")
Oh dear… After the last couple of pages of posts, I’m starting to feel like **Queuing** is being entirely too helpful to be scum, and if he WERE the SK, he’d surely have taken the other side of the arguments about whether a reading of SK is reliable, and whether Aguecheek is really a cop. Now I’m leaning toward the view that he and **Malacandra** are both townies, as were all five of the people counter-accusing each other on Day 2, while the Mafia sit back and watch. In the absence of any other people I feel comfortable voting for, I’m going to unvote Queing and vote brewha, on the grounds that **brewha** ’s voting patterns are closer to those of known Mafia than any of the other players. Not sure what I think about **Aguecheek** ’s claim, but I don’t see anything yet that makes it implausible. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2915 "2007-04-18T15:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] Oh dear… After the last couple of pages of posts, I’m starting to feel like **Queuing** is being entirely too helpful to be scum, and if he WERE the SK, he’d surely have taken the other side of the arguments about whether a reading of SK is reliable, and whether Aguecheek is really a cop. Now I’m leaning toward the view that he and **Malacandra** are both townies, as were all five of the people counter-accusing each other on Day 2, while the Mafia sit back and watch. In the absence of any other people I feel comfortable voting for, I’m going to unvote Queing and vote brewha, on the grounds that **brewha** ’s voting patterns are closer to those of known Mafia than any of the other players. Not sure what I think about **Aguecheek** ’s claim, but I don’t see anything yet that makes it implausible. [/QUOTE] Don’t wanna jump on my bandwagon eh? This is what I was waiting for…Once I am confirmed town good ol’ **Fretful** looks like he is the voice of reason in a rush to hang a townie. Vote Fretful Porpentine ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2916 "2007-04-18T15:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Next I don’t know who to vote for. So I’m going with a suggestion from confirmed Townies … vote MadThe Swine [/QUOTE] (color removed for clarity.) This’s the second time you’ve appealed to the authority of confirmed Townies ([post=8454857]here was the first[/post]). That feels like Mafia hiding in the shadows. Mighty suspicious behavior. [post=8476626]Especially since I’ve explicitly mentioned trying to avoid this sort of effect.[/post] I still think **MadTheSwine** is likely Mafia, so I won’t unvote, but it sure is suspicious about all the people jumping on. If he turns out Townie, this gives us some good leads. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2917 "2007-04-18T16:03:35Z")
So, it looks like MTS is going down today. Unless something else crazy happens (which it could of course). So we need to decide our next bit of business. That being whom should the cops investigate (assuming of course we are still making suggestions). My list is: glee (for being mentioned far to often by known scum) brewha (laying low, but has tripped a few scumdar’s) monkeymensch (well I think he is scum, see my post) pygmy rugger (pinged a lot of scumdars) malacandara (could be town, but my analysis says he has done very little that is actually townie) Oh, and me (because I talk a lot, have pinged oh pretty much everyone’s radar, have a reading of SK [not sure what happens if you re-read me and it comes up SK again, well I suppose I die, but I wonder: would math save me?], have almost been lynched at least 2x) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2918 "2007-04-18T16:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Don’t wanna jump on my bandwagon eh? This is what I was waiting for…Once I am confirmed town good ol’ **Fretful** looks like he is the voice of reason in a rush to hang a townie. Vote Fretful Porpentine [/QUOTE] Well, I wasn’t going to vote for you because I didn’t see any particular reason to think you were scum, but if you wanted to _give_ me a reason, you’ve made a pretty good start :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2919 "2007-04-18T16:11:04Z")
Fretful, I don’t suppose you happen to have **brewha’s** voting pattern handy, and are able to show how it meshes with known scum? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/2920 "2007-04-18T16:12:36Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Don’t wanna jump on my bandwagon eh? This is what I was waiting for…Once I am confirmed town good ol’ **Fretful** looks like he is the voice of reason in a rush to hang a townie. Vote Fretful Porpentine [/QUOTE] Again \*\*Fretful \*\* doesn’t want to vote for the condemned here [post=8458650]#2577[/post] and here [post=8454081]#2399[/post].Trying real hard to be the shepard…but the truth is,we are the weak ..and he is the tyranny of evil men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=145) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=147)