# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3381 "2007-04-30T16:26:40Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] I was referring to the mafia hitting CaerieD. Do we know otherwise? if so I missed it and apologize for being misleading; can you point me to the post where it was established? [/QUOTE] When **BM** made his role claim, he admitted to killing **CaerieD**. Why? You wouldn’t happen to know that the Mafia put a hit on her too, would you? That would certainly explain why there were only two deaths that night. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3382 "2007-04-30T16:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] er, no, how did you get that from what I posted? Nesta (mafia) made sure to point out that Queuing (unknown) STARTED the bandwagon (against a known citizen); my concern is not that he is voting for Queuing but that he is trying to throw suspicion on him. I was referring to the mafia hitting CaerieD. Do we know otherwise? if so I missed it and apologize for being misleading; can you point me to the post where it was established? [/QUOTE] IIRC, **Blaster Master** told us that after he was forced to Vig claim. I’m pretty sure it was in a four digit numbered post count, perhaps you should try looking there? (;), it was sometime in the middle of day two) ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3383 "2007-04-30T16:32:01Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > When BM made his role claim, he admitted to killing CaerieD. [QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] IIRC, **Blaster Master** told us that after he was forced to Vig claim. I’m pretty sure it was in a four digit numbered post count, perhaps you should try looking there? (;), it was sometime in the middle of day two) [/QUOTE] groovy, I’ll keep an eye out. Consider my comments withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3384 "2007-04-30T16:35:54Z")
Holy crap, 2 hrs! I thought we had until Wed! 6- Aguecheek - (Rysto, Kat, Fretful Porpentine, MonkeyMench, Queuing, StarvingButStrong) 4- Queuing - (brewha, Aguecheek, Pygmy Rugger, Sturmhauke) 2- Pygmy Rugger - (cowgirl, stroyteller) 1- brewha - (Lakai) 1- hocow - (Pleonast) Here we have Aguecheek voting for Queuing and Queuing voting for Aguecheek. It really seems that they are on opposite sides. Or, one of them is the SK. If Aguecheek comes up town, we _really_ have to string up Queuing tomorrow. The way I see it. If Aguecheek comes up town, that means that Queuing is the SK or mafia. The mafia wants to kill the SK as badly as we do at this point. If Queuing lives through the night, he has to be mafia. If Aguecheek comes up scum and Queuing lives through the night, I still think we should consider him a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3385 "2007-04-30T16:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] When **BM** made his role claim, he admitted to killing **CaerieD**. Why? You wouldn’t happen to know that the Mafia put a hit on her too, would you? That would certainly explain why there were only two deaths that night. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JSexton] Frak. Stupid early-morning meetings. Claim time. **I am the Doctor**. Night one, chrisK protected himself. **Night Two, Mad theSwine, and there was one less kill.** Last night, I self-protected again, and there was one less kill. I think the mafia had an inkling that I was the doc, and tried to kill me. (I don’t think they felt terribly threatened by my analysis.) [/QUOTE] As much as I hate to defend **cowgirl** by posting this, it’s post 2150. Some bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3386 "2007-04-30T16:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] If Aguecheek comes up scum and Queuing lives through the night, I still think we should consider him a threat. [/QUOTE] I wanted to elaborate on this statement. Queuing voting for Aguecheek does not necesarily mean that he is innocent if Aguecheek comes up scum. At this point, if Aguecheek gets less votes, Queuing gets lynched. In the eyes of the mafia, it doesn’t really matter which one of them gets lynched if the lynching of a mafia member seems inevitable. I could speculate for pages, but I guess we have to wait and see what Aguecheek turns out to be before we formulate a plan for tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3387 "2007-04-30T16:57:38Z")
So no matter what brewha, I am scum? The way you think and accuse is still very amusing to me. Keep at it. You have a one track mind. How very nice for you. However, as stated, I am not comfortable lynching aguecheek. He may be the cop. i don’t think he is, but what the hell? unvote aguecheek lynch pygmy rugger There is one other thing that I have noticed, but I have no idea what it means. The people who put a trust list on day 1 are as follows: Chrisk Doctor—dead Pleonast Mason MTS citizen—dead BM VIG—Dead caerieD DET— Dead Zuma Mason —Dead Storyteller Queuing Gadarene citizen Lakai Pimaspinner Beat cop —dead Glee Citizen ----dead Smitty Fretful porpentine FCOD Scum —dead Starvingbutstrong Winston smith Citizen —dead Menecchio citizen – dead Seems like a large number of citizens did put down a trust list, while only 1 known scum did. Why is this? Did the scum not like the idea at all? Why wouldn’t they have liked the idea? Could it be because it would lead to a lot of crumbs for citizend to follow when the inevitable happened? I don’t know. I don’t know if it means anything, but I am comfortable voting for people who didn’t make a list. FTR my scum list: Monkey Mensch Pygmy Rugger Brewha Hocow ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3388 "2007-04-30T16:59:09Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] As much as I hate to defend **cowgirl** by posting this, it’s post 2150. Some bolding mine. [/QUOTE] **JSexton** didn’t know whether his protection saved **MadTheSwine** or not, only who was protected and the fact that there was one less kill that night. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3389 "2007-04-30T17:12:44Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] Seems like a large number of citizens did put down a trust list, while only 1 known scum did. Why is this? [/QUOTE] Honestly, I think it’s because known scum didn’t do much posting at all in the early days. They didn’t vote for \*\*Enfant Terrible \*\* or for **Blaster Master**. For the record the folks who voted for BM before his claim were **Town** pimaspinner ArizonaTeach Gadarene Winston Smith **Unknown** Queuing hocow Pygmy Rugger Augecheek Lakai ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3390 "2007-04-30T17:32:58Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] So no matter what brewha, I am scum? The way you think and accuse is still very amusing to me. Keep at it. You have a one track mind. How very nice for you. [/QUOTE] So glad you’re amused. By your own accusations, I can’t trust you now. You’ve already accused me of haphazardly jumping around with my convictions. I certainly can’t change my mind now without upsetting you further. If Aguecheek comes up town, then yes you are 100% scum in my mind. If he comes up SK or Mafia, you’ll probably drop down to 80-90%. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3391 "2007-04-30T17:39:11Z")
I can’t find evidence that \*\*hocow \*\* has posted anywhere on the boards for the last several days, so I won’t replace her is she makes it in tonight and lets us know what happened. Otherwise…dunno. If she can post twice in the next hour that would be for the best. **HOCOW!** You don’t have to post content, just make 2 posts. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3392 "2007-04-30T17:42:58Z")
**Brewha** , please indulge a poor girl whose brain is on mafia overload today; it is entirely possible that you laid this out six pages ago and I haven’t properly absorbed it yet. What do you mean by > [@](#): > > If \*\*Aguecheek \*\*comes up town, then yes you [**Queuing**] are 100% scum in my mind ? Why is that? Why your conviction that Queuing is likely scum, and that the revelation of Aguecheek’s status will tell us something about it? Earlier on you said > [@](#): > > Here we have Aguecheek voting for Queuing and Queuing voting for Aguecheek. It really seems that they are on opposite sides. Or, one of them is the SK. If Aguecheek comes up town, we really have to string up Queuing tomorrow. but that conclusion doesn’t seem valid to me. It’s probably because I’ve spent the morning reading Day 1 and Day 2 which were all, in retrospect, townies pointing at each other, with absolute certainty that the other was mafia. What other reason do you have to be so certain of this? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3393 "2007-04-30T17:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] So glad you’re amused. By your own accusations, I can’t trust you now. You’ve already accused me of haphazardly jumping around with my convictions. I certainly can’t change my mind now without upsetting you further. If Aguecheek comes up town, then yes you are 100% scum in my mind. If he comes up SK or Mafia, you’ll probably drop down to 80-90%. [/QUOTE] And this is why I will no longer bother answering your accusations. Your mind is made up, and no matter what I did you saw it as a scum tell. Don’t trust me, vote for me, try to get yet another bandwagon started. I no longer give a shit about what you have to say about me. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3394 "2007-04-30T17:58:29Z")
Last call everybody ---
**Author:** ![hocow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hocow/32/4112_2.png) [@hocow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocow)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3395 "2007-04-30T18:05:07Z")
Gah! I’m here. Long night at work is all. I wanted to answer **Kat** ’s questions yesterday but was running late for work. I think I can do it in 20 min. Be right back. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3396 "2007-04-30T18:06:53Z")
Okay, my scum list is changing. Curse you \*\*Lakai \*\*and **Pygmy Rugger** , for completely confusing me. You have both done things quite suspicious and things quite helpful, so I’m going to have to wipe my slate clean of you and start again. In the middle of the lynch- **Queuing** -direct- **Blaster Master** fiasco, I was struck by this post [my note added in parentheses]: > [@Queuing in post 1404](#): > > The town has been ripping themselves apart. I am town, I swear it. This is a disastrous outcome for the town. All 4-6 of us [Queuing, Pleonast, Gadarene, zuma, Blaster Master, Winston Smith?] have actually been on the same team, and just not trusting each other. The Mafia has been sitting back, enjoying the show, gaining more and more knowledge and power…If Option B, well we still go ahead with our plan. We lose 2 more townies from our hands and one more from the Mafia. This brings it to what? A 9 person hole? With 2 masons and the Detective dead? The town is in trouble. However that still leaves us with information. Instead of looking at who has said a lot, we look at who has said little to nothing. That list is not that short either. > > Sturmhauke **town** > Fretful Porcupine **unknown** > StarvingbutStrong **unknown** > Smitty **unknown** to you [but town, I promise!] > Hocow **unknown** > Kivvik **mafia** > AguaCheek **unknown** > ArizonaTeach **town** > > If we find out that it has been town ripping itself apart, you go after this people. In the morning I will reconstruct my suspicion list from that one. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3397 "2007-04-30T18:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] **Brewha** What other reason do you have to be so certain of this? Thanks! [/QUOTE] I really hate to explain this since Queuing tends to get into a hissy when I accuse him. There are several things that build up to it, but basically he is overall the most outspoken poster that is still alive. The mafia should have taken him out by now. They haven’t and there are only two possible reasons that they haven’t. He is either mafia or has been wrong on his accusations and is helping them out. Just go back and read our arguements during the past day. I really don’t want to keep beating on this since Queuing is taking this game way too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![hocow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hocow/32/4112_2.png) [@hocow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocow)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3398 "2007-04-30T18:15:18Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] Hey, **hocow** , what made you suspect **Fretful**? -Someone _other_ than **Malacandra** had thought **hocow** was the SK, but I can’t find that post right now. Does anyone remember who it was? [/QUOTE] Post [1922](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439336&postcount=1922) is what seemed scummy to me at the time. This was actually pointed out in your analysis of her(I think?). The logic behind why she thought BM was the SK seemed faulty. More or less, why wouldn’t the “real” VIG go after BM? There may have been something else but I’m pressed for time and that is one thing that didn’t look right to me. YMMV Also, BM is the other person who thought that I was the SK. For what it’s worth, I vote Aguecheek for many reasons already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3399 "2007-04-30T18:15:44Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] They haven’t and there are only two possible reasons that they haven’t. He is either mafia or has been wrong on his accusations and is helping them out. [/QUOTE] Look, I’m not sure what the point of continuing this discussion is anymore, but the fact is that you are wrong about this. There is a third alternative: that the Mafia sees no good reason to night kill **Queuing** because the town appears to be on the verge of lynching him just about every day. This may not be the case, but it is a possibility. That you continue to ignore the existence of this third alternative is frankly dishonest discussion. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3400 "2007-04-30T18:19:00Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] There are several things that build up to it, but basically he is overall the most outspoken poster that is still alive. [/QUOTE] Ah, okay. That is understandable. I also find it strange that he was so nearly lynched, twice, during the \*\*Blaster Master \*\*fiasco, and managed to survive for no specific reason (except that they needed to stop the clock to decide on their vig-kill, and his posts seemed towny to everybody). But the first people to unvote him were mostly confirmed town. There remain two kinds of players in this game: people who I am confident are town; and people who I am equally confident are town and scum. _sigh_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=171)