# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 194
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3861 "2007-05-13T20:01:48Z")
Wow things are moving slowly. I guess everyone has Mother’s Day plans but me. ☹ I don’t think anyone should vote until Storyteller chimes in. What I expect to happen is that after a townie votes for another townie, the two Mafioso will vote along with him, ending the game. I think we should just say who we are voting for without making it official, so that the mafia can’t speed lynch to victory. I shouldn’t be much trouble for us to remember who everyone wants to vote for if we don’t make it official. We can make our votes official in the last day of voting or when it is clear that no one is going to change their mind. [QUOTE=Kat] On my way out the door for Mother’s Day brunch, but I wanted to type this up before I forgot about it. Other possibilities A) Either **storyteller** or **Queuing** (or both) are way off base and the Mafia want them continue in that direction B) **StarvingButStrong** posted something that made the Mafia nervous C) Both A and B D) Either **storyteller** or **Queuing** is Mafia, and the reason the other one wasn’t night killed was because either A and/or B apply [/QUOTE] E) Mafia wants everyone to suspect Storyteller and Queuing because they did not die. F) Mafia wants everyone to think SBS got killed because she was on to something. G) E and F. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3862 "2007-05-14T12:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > When I get home, remind me to look through StarvingButStong’s posts to see what she said that made the Mafia take her out. She voted for Lakai right at the end, but I was pretty vocal against Lakai all Day long. Yeah, but you’re an unknown and SBS was someone whom most people thought was a townie. She could probably swing other people’s votes toward **Lakai** ; you or I probably can’t. The Mafia are going to leave those of you, me, and **Lakai** who are townies alive for as long as possible, because townies who can potentially come under suspicion are useful distractors. Townies who are generally agreed to be townies are a liability, at least if they’re right. I think we have to go ahead and kill **Lakai** today, both because we said we would and because I think it’s likely that SBS was killed because she was right on the money. Leaning Mafia on **Queuing** as well (if so, I have to congratulate the Mafia and **Aguecheek** in particular on their cleverness), but I’m less sure about him. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3863 "2007-05-14T12:51:59Z")
Sorry again for my absence thus far this Day. I am re-reading and will return with more substantive contribution by lunchtime today. NAF - thanks for the extension. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3864 "2007-05-14T17:15:07Z")
OK, here we go. Since my preferred choice - cowering silently in the corner - is unlikely to yield any useful information, I’m going to wade back in here and hope something good comes of it. First, on the subject of last night’s kill (and today’s survivors). I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and what I think is that this particular avenue is not going to be useful, because that evidence is evidence that has been given to us by an untrustworthy source. Consider: we know that **StarvingButStrong** expressed suspicion of **Lakai** toward the end of yesterday; the Mafia might have killed her to cut off that inquiry (if **Lakai** is Mafia). But if **Lakai** is not, then killing **StarvingButStrong** might have been an attempt to divert suspicion _onto_ an innocent **Lakai**. Or it might have been an attempt to widen the town’s net - to make us consider more suspects by making people wonder why **Queuing** and I are still alive, thus reducing our chance of hitting Mafia. Or it might have been an attempt to hide the fact that either **Queuing** or I (or both) are Mafia (I know I’m not, but the remaining town can’t know that). In short, the Night events could easily be consistent with just about any combination of remaining Mafia, which means they tell us precisely nothing at all. Worse yet, if we base our lynching decisions to any significant extent on Night results, we are basing our choice on evidence that has been handpicked for delivery _by the very people who want us to choose poorly_ - evidence that they can now spin any way they want to during the Day according to whatever they planned at Night. We have imperfect information, which means we have no hope of confidently interpreting the Night-time actions of those who have perfect information. Which is my long-winded way of saying that I am much more interested in looking at people’s daytime posts as potential indicators. Pursuant to that, I’ll start by saying that **Fretful Porpentine** has said and done several things that have seemed odd to me, just this game Day. In her two brief analysis posts of today, she has focused entirely on what happened last night. In the first, at 3586, she pronounces it “almost certain” that either **Queuing** or I is Mafia - as I noted above, I find it impossible to make a statement like that based on last night’s results alone. Then, finding little traction on that path, she tries to draw attention to **Lakai** on the basis, again, of what happened at Night - positing that **SbS** was night-killed because she was after Lakai (post 3862). Couple that with what I say [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8558109&postcount=3751) and I have concerns. BUT. **Fretful** also refrained from voting for **brewha** when doing so would have resulted in an insta-lynch, then jumped on **brewha’s** bandwagon to ensure the eventual lynch. If she was Mafia and her primary concern was distancing herself from the lynch of a townie, why do the latter? If she was Mafia and her primary concern was getting a townie lynched, why do the former? That sequence of actions mitigates against what I’ve said so far; to what extent I don’t yet know. The town as a whole has been somewhat suspicious of **Lakai** for some time. Honestly, I wasn’t feeling it even a little bit until fairly recently. I think his actions with regard to the **brewha** vote look very strange to me - early on the bandwagon, then jumps off almost literally at the last possible second? This could easily be interpreted as the act of someone who got the job done - getting **brewha** killed - and now wanted to put a little distance between himself and the act. BUT. His actions today have been very considered and careful so far - given where we stand in the game, I was thinking the Mafia might tip their hands by being too aggressive, pushing for an early or an easy lynch. So again, I don’t know. **Kat** - I know I said I’d do a **Kat** post history, and I will genuinely try to do so but am worried I won’t have enough time. Someone want to split the job with me? In any case, unless I find any glaring inconsistencies in her record, it seems like a vote for Kat would be very nearly random, which is not what I want to be doing at this point. And then there is **Queuing**. For the very first time since the Day 2 conflagration, **Queuing** said something today that made me feel a twinge of suspicion - namely, that if we are certain that **Lakai** is Mafia, we shouldn’t vote for him, but rather try to break up the **Kat / Fretful** pairing. I strongly disagree with this, at this stage of the game. If we become certain about **Lakai** , we should lynch him (same if we become certain, or nearly certain, about _anyone_) immediately. This will have the benefit of removing his potentially misleading contributions and vote from tomorrow’s discussion, plus eliminate the chance of an instant game-over if we guess wrong between **Fretful** and **Kat**. This proposition by **Queuing** would make incredible sense if he and **Lakai** were the last Mafia. Push us to lynch either **Fretful** or **Kat** , knowing that they are both town, and that whichever we choose, we’re done. That said, this seems a little fanciful. I realize that I’ve more or less cast my lot with **Queuing** here, but his body of work is so pro-town that I feel the same about him as I do about **Kat** - a vote for him would be a shot in the dark, comparatively speaking. So I guess for me right now it’s between **Lakai** and **Fretful** , with **Kat** a possible third candidate pending further investigation. Finally: I very strongly agree with Lakai’s suggestion that we wait to place even a single vote until we have a town-wide consensus on a target. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3865 "2007-05-14T19:21:15Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine I think we have to go ahead and kill **Lakai** today, both because we said we would and because I think it’s likely that SBS was killed because she was right on the money. Leaning Mafia on **Queuing** as well (if so, I have to congratulate the Mafia and **Aguecheek** in particular on their cleverness), but I’m less sure about him.[/QUOTE] Compared to Storyteller’s long and thought out post, this seems very scummy to me. We should kill someone because we said we would do it yesterday? Then she says that we should kill me because SBS was on my tale? As if no else was suspicious of me yesterday. FretFul clearly knows I am next in the FOS order (she admits this by saying that the the town said they would kill me). I would have had to lynch the whole town to get people off my back. The mafia just needed a little more evidence so that they could hammer home my lynching. From my perspective, where I know I’m town, I think Fretful is definitely mobbed up. Since I was the most suspicious townie yesterday, it would make sense to set up my lynching today. Out of everyone here, Fretful was the only one that stated we should lynch me outright, stated that it was suspicious that Queuing and Storyteller survived and stated that SBS died because she was on my tale. It is as if she wants us to believe something from the night kill that would cause a town’s death. I would vote for Fretful today. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3866 "2007-05-14T19:23:53Z")
That was a coding error above, I did not mean to highlight anything in Fretful’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3867 "2007-05-14T19:34:22Z")
I believe that cowgirl did do at least a partial posting history of Kat. That could make your life a little easier storyteller. I don’t think I will have time today or tomorrow to help, sorry. As to my idea about not going after Lakai and instead going after the Kat/Fretful pair: its because of the assumptions that you made. I agree with them, and I agree with the idea that if one is the other isn’t. Due to this I think Lakai is more likely to be mafia then not. Therefore I am not paying much attention to what he has to say. I don’t see the difference between lynching him to get his potentially misleading arguments out of the way, and just assuming that he is scum and therefore his arguments should be viewed as such. If anything I see it as more of a benefit to keep him talking, maybe he will make a mistake. Nor can I see how any information will be gained by lynching him. Unless he is town of course, and then the game is over. So that leaves the other pair. If we go after the other pair and are wrong the game is over however it is most likely over if we get it right as well. We would then hopefully know who the last scum is, giving an easy lynch for the win. Either way we learn something. Knowledge is gained. The game would be over either way. I don’t see the downside here. By just killing Lakai, (assuming we are right) and he is mafia one of the presumed townies will be killed during the night (either Story or myself). We will then lose one of the trusted voices in this game. Myself I would rather go for the win when we have as many trusted voices as possible. Not leave it up to the single trusted townie to choose between the remaining two. I feel we have a better chance of winning by having more people vote. Therefore I want to go for the game today My FOS is on Fretful still. I believe I have given my reasons earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3868 "2007-05-14T20:09:16Z")
It is not complete, but here it is: [Kat according to cowgirl](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8521027&postcount=3402) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3869 "2007-05-14T23:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > As to my idea about not going after Lakai and instead going after the Kat/Fretful pair: its because of the assumptions that you made. I agree with them, and I agree with the idea that if one is the other isn’t. Due to this I think Lakai is more likely to be mafia then not. Therefore I am not paying much attention to what he has to say. I don’t see the difference between lynching him to get his potentially misleading arguments out of the way, and just assuming that he is scum and therefore his arguments should be viewed as such. If anything I see it as more of a benefit to keep him talking, maybe he will make a mistake. Nor can I see how any information will be gained by lynching him. Unless he is town of course, and then the game is over. Wait, wait. You’re saying you’d pass on lynching someone you think is probably Mafia in order to take a chance on lynching an unknown? That makes no sense at this stage in the game, when even one mislynch means instant loss. And lynching me or **Kat** will not get you any more information than lynching **Lakai**. There IS no “Kat / Fretful pair.” Kat and I have expressed neither great trust nor great distrust in each other. If one of us is scum, it doesn’t give the slightest indication that the other is town, or vice versa. (For the record, I think we are both town, and at least one of the “trusted” townies shouldn’t be trusted at all.) There _was_ a “brewha / Lakai” pair, because they spent much of the game FoSing each other so heavily that one could make a reasonable argument that knowing one’s status would give us information about the other. Now that we do have that information, we’re royally screwed if we refuse to do anything with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3870 "2007-05-14T23:12:52Z")
[QUOTE=Lakai] E) Mafia wants everyone to suspect Storyteller and Queuing because they did not die. F) Mafia wants everyone to think SBS got killed because she was on to something. G) E and F. [/QUOTE] And we both forgot: H) Mafia wants everyone to suspect that **storyteller** and **Queuing** are way off base because they did not die I) Any combination of the above At this point, I am at a loss, and I’m terrified that I’m going to have to reread the entire thread. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3871 "2007-05-14T23:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] There IS no “Kat / Fretful pair.” Kat and I have expressed neither great trust nor great distrust in each other. [/QUOTE] Well, I have gone on record as saying that I thought you were town, but that was just because **Queuing** assigned me to do your post history. I’m a lot more certain of your Town-iness than of **Lakai** ’s right now. Essentially, if they insist on putting up a choice for everyone to vote for me or you; the both of us might as well just go out for coffee and doughnuts, because we’ll either cancel each other’s vote out (since neither of us will be silly enough to vote for ourselves) or the two of us will vote outside of the bloc and our votes will be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3872 "2007-05-14T23:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] Well, I have gone on record as saying that I thought you were town, but that was just because **Queuing** assigned me to do your post history. I’m a lot more certain of your Town-iness than of **Lakai** ’s right now. [/QUOTE] True, but that makes it even less likely that we’re a “pair,” in the sense that exactly one of us is Mafia and the other isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3873 "2007-05-14T23:32:59Z")
True. Maybe we should start wildly FOSing each other? ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3874 "2007-05-15T00:04:00Z")
Hmm, I was doing some thinking. I realized something. My idea to not go after Lakai assumes that there is more then 1 mafia around. I suppose there is a chance that there is only 1 left, but I believe we all think there is 2. So I suppose we could just go ahead and lynch Lakai. This would still leave the choice between Kat and Fretful for tomorrow however. I see no benefit to having less of around to make that choice. Is that a horrible idea? Having more people around to make the most important decision in the game? The reason you two are paired together is because of Storyteller’s assumptions. If you feel you were wronged by them, please blow them apart. Give us a reason to throw away the assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3875 "2007-05-15T02:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] I agree with them, and I agree with the idea that if one is the other isn’t. Due to this I think Lakai is more likely to be mafia then not. Therefore I am not paying much attention to what he has to say. [/QUOTE] Logical reasoning at its finest folks. There is just no way Queuing can be wrong. :rolleyes: For those that care to listen, why am I being FOSed for voting for brewha when everyone else voted for him too. Fretful even started voting for brewha on day five, when I started on day six. Brewha’s votes for me should not matter either. What is so special about his vote? Does a confirmed townie have some kind of special scum detection power that I am not aware of? What is so concrete about this idea that if brewha is town that I am not? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3876 "2007-05-15T03:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] True, but that makes it even less likely that we’re a “pair,” in the sense that exactly one of us is Mafia and the other isn’t. [/QUOTE] The pair idea comes from a process of elimination. Storyteller assumed that he, Queuing and SBS were all town. That leaves me, you, Kat and brewha. Then he thought that since brewha and I are voting for each other, we both can’t be mafia, so that means that someone from either you and Kat are mafia. What Queuing still fails to realize, even though he is using Storyteller’s theory as an excuse to think I’m mafia, is that Storyteller said: > [@](#): > > 1. It is possible that Lakai and brewha are both town, but it is exceedingly unlikely that they are both Mafia. and > [@](#): > > If we choose either Lakai or brewha and miss, hitting a townie, then we are going to be in a pickle. We’ll have, I think, a 2 in 3 chance of getting Mafia choosing among Kat, Fretful, and whichever of the brewha/Lakai pair we didn’t go for, then a 1 in 2 chance of finishing the job the next day, for an overall 2 in 6, or 33% chance of winning. Storyteller never said that if brewha is town that I am mafia. He said that if one of us is mafia, the other isn’t. This is not the same thing as if one of us is town, the other is mafia. Why Queuing insists on using Storyteller as an authority on this is beyond me as Storyteller never says that he agrees with this reasoning. For a while I actually thought Storyteller was saying what Queuing said, that if brewha is town, that means I’m mafia. I thought I initially misread what Storyteller posted, but it turns out that all this was simply cooked up by Queuing. Queuing says this in post 3764: > [@](#): > > None that I can think of. It would be quite dumb for the scum to start spouting off and bring suspicion onto themselves. I see no advantage to a sudden death killing, but nor do I think waiting the 12 hours will shed any light on the situation. What we need know is to find out if brewha is scum or not. This gives us information no matter what he turns out to be. If he is scum well he is dead, and thats good. If he is town and the game goes on we know there are just 2 scum left, and that one is probably lakai. > > It really doesn’t matter is what I think. Then SBS posted this: > [@](#): > > I’ve got a nasty, suspicious mind (a trait definitely brought to the forefront by this game) and I can see only one reason for you to not want us to lynch Brewha: because you know he is, in fact, town. And Queuing had just posted – in a way that sounds very set in stone – that if Brewha is town, you will be lynched tomorrow. Earlier you probably thought you would be one of three in the pool, and were taking your chances. But if it’s going to by you, no doubt? Suddenly it’s time to try another course of action. I should have realized earlier that SBS thought I switched my vote because I got scared of what Queuing said. I could understand if I was scared about Storyteller’s post (which is what I thought I was being accused of), but Queuing? Since when does what he say get written in stone? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3877 "2007-05-15T05:17:20Z")
OK, maybe it would be a good idea for me to stop checking for new posts in the middle of the night. FTR, is anyone awake at this time (1:20 a.m. EST)? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3878 "2007-05-15T11:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > The pair idea comes from a process of elimination. Storyteller assumed that he, Queuing and SBS were all town. That leaves me, you, Kat and brewha. Then he thought that since brewha and I are voting for each other, we both can’t be mafia, so that means that someone from either you and Kat are mafia. Yeah, I know where the idea comes from, I just think that the premise that Storyteller and Queuing are both town is extremely shaky ground on which to build a theory, and getting shakier all the time. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3879 "2007-05-15T12:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine] Yeah, I know where the idea comes from, I just think that the premise that Storyteller and Queuing are both town is extremely shaky ground on which to build a theory, and getting shakier all the time. [/QUOTE] You know, that’s fine. Noted. But I can’t help noticing that you seem extremely reluctant to climb out on a limb of any kind. If you want to accuse me of being Mafia, _do it._ If you want to accuse **Queuing** , do _that._ And give reasons, that can both be addressed by the target and considered by the rest of the players. Right now your vague allusions are unhelpful at best, and are starting to seem deliberately obfuscatory. I think that we’re running in circles here, trying to work through this whole thing like a logic puzzle that has a solution for which we can solve. At this stage of the game I’d say we need to identify the person most likely to be Mafia - based not on conditional if/thens but on the player’s actions in this thread - and lynch that person. Anything else is essentially random, and random does not favor the town. Incidentally, **Lakai** has correctly explained my “pairs” analysis. The whole thing was predicated on the hope that we would lynch either **Lakai** or **brewha** and find scum. Since that didn’t happen, the pairs thing is essentially moot. Until someone gives me a reason other than “he’s alive” to suspect **Queuing,** there are no pairs anymore, just three players and probably two Mafia. I’ve been reading **Kat’s** stuff again, btw. It is remarkable only for its lack of a pattern - she doesn’t seem to have consistently done X or Y. It is a track record that is consistent either with a player having imperfect information, or a Mafia playing an utterly brilliant game. I am probably disinclined to vote for her at this point, although I am certainly open to anything at this point. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3880 "2007-05-15T12:53:07Z")
Since I can’t edit: sorry for using the phrase “at this point” so many times, particularly twice in the last sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=193) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=195)