# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3921 "2007-05-16T15:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=MonkeyMensch] Yeah, **Storyteller** , I read that post in the game thread about me being Mr. Low-profile and CRINGED! I just got done reading the portions of the Mafia board regarding that part of the game and was surprised: the idea of Mafiosi sacrificing themselves to prolong the game had never occured to me. Hubris, I suppose. Again, wonderful analysis. [/QUOTE] Yeah, they made some really interesting plays. My hope is that their boards with be educational for future town players. They played REALLY well, I am not sure the town had much of a chance beating this group, they were good. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3922 "2007-05-16T16:20:06Z")
Good game. We got schooled. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3923 "2007-05-16T16:20:32Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] Yeah, they made some really interesting plays. My hope is that their boards with be educational for future town players. They played REALLY well, I am not sure the town had much of a chance beating this group, they were good. [/QUOTE] I noticed you said this on the forbidden thread, also. Did you have anything else in mind besides how **Ague** claimed cop and **story** going after me for twenty seven game days in a row? I think that one was the clincher, actually, but only worked because I managed to last so long. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3924 "2007-05-16T16:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] I noticed you said this on the forbidden thread, also. Did you have anything else in mind besides how **Ague** claimed cop and **story** going after me for twenty seven game days in a row? I think that one was the clincher, actually, but only worked because I managed to last so long. [/QUOTE] Actually, I’d say our best play was killing **JSexton.** I was afraid we were going to spend half the game playing chicken with him, and we got him at the right time (no thanks to me, by the way). ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3925 "2007-05-16T16:27:58Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Actually, I’d say our best play was killing **JSexton.** I was afraid we were going to spend half the game playing chicken with him, and we got him at the right time (no thanks to me, by the way). [/QUOTE] True, and granted, you were in no way an asset to our team. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3926 "2007-05-16T16:37:03Z")
Very well done mobsters! I thought Queuing was going to be Mafia right up to the end. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3927 "2007-05-16T16:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Actually, I’d say our best play was killing **JSexton.** I was afraid we were going to spend half the game playing chicken with him, and we got him at the right time (no thanks to me, by the way). [/QUOTE] Oh geez, yeah. That was a good 'un. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3928 "2007-05-16T16:41:11Z")
You guys rock. Well played. Even though you killed me twice. I’m off to the mafia boards to find out why … ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3929 "2007-05-16T16:41:14Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] I noticed you said this on the forbidden thread, also. Did you have anything else in mind besides how **Ague** claimed cop and **story** going after me for twenty seven game days in a row? I think that one was the clincher, actually, but only worked because I managed to last so long. [/QUOTE] I think the best thing you guys did was the long slow set up of conflict between you and Storyteller. THAT was brilliant. I think that the MonkeyMench kill as well as the JSexton kill were great plays that crippled the town. These are the three things that gave you the game I think. Aguecheek as a cop, some of the early strategy with Suburban Plankton and nesta and kivvik, all helped get you to those places. On the whole I think you just did a great job of staying 2 steps ahead of the town the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3930 "2007-05-16T16:42:40Z")
[QUOTE=cowgirl] You guys rock. Well played. Even though you killed me twice. I’m off to the mafia boards to find out why … [/QUOTE] To be fair, we killed you only once. You have **MonkeyMensch** to thank for your second demise. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3931 "2007-05-16T16:48:58Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] Yeah, they made some really interesting plays. My hope is that their boards with be educational for future town players. They played REALLY well, I am not sure the town had much of a chance beating this group, they were good. [/QUOTE] “We” did play well (with a few exceptions ☹ ), but it was the Godfather who really won this game. I had to sit back and laugh over the last few days when I saw how completely fooled the town was. BRAVO **storyteller0910**! ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3932 "2007-05-16T17:13:00Z")
Holy crap, I never saw that coming. You guys seriously \|+|=\|||[) us. I think another contributing factor to the Mafia win was the immediate loss of a Mason, and the very early outing of two more. (Of course, I’m biased. ;)) In hindsight, I didn’t need to out myself when I did, but then I wouldn’t have spotted storyteller or Kat anyway. I also have to admit my role in getting JSexton killed. I led the charge against him that resulted in his Doctor claim. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3933 "2007-05-16T18:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Actually, I’d say our best play was killing **JSexton.** I was afraid we were going to spend half the game playing chicken with him, and we got him at the right time (no thanks to me, by the way). [/QUOTE] That was an excellent play, and it suprised me a lot. I think **JSexton** was off his game a bit becuase he made a couple mistakes that I wouldn’t have expected of an experienced Mafia player. Firstly, and most importantly, making the role claim at all. When you’re a town power role the best thing you can do is deflect attention if a lynch mob heads your way. I’ve looked back over the pressure he was under and the timeline he was on and I think he had enough time to argue his way out of the lynch without claiming. I think he could have wiggled out of it early, and would have if he’d been playing from the start and had a better feel for the other players and been able to read some of their tells or had a longer history with the other players. I think the substitution hurt here. A doctor revealed isn’t much better than a doctor dead. The second mistake he made, and this one cost him his life, was to get caught up in the excitement around **Hockey Monkey** (formerly **pimaspinner** ) when she claimed. A beat cop is not worth protecting, especially by a doctor who has already been outed. If he were still under the radar it may have been worth it, but as this game has shown, and an experienced player should have already known, they’re just a confounding role. Let the beat cop take a bullet, keep protecting yourself unless a higher-value townie is exposed(like a second detective or miller). Doctor is more valuable Beat Cop and should be protected. All in all, though good game everyone. And quite a marathon! Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3934 "2007-05-16T18:30:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mtgman] That was an excellent play, and it suprised me a lot. I think **JSexton** was off his game a bit becuase he made a couple mistakes that I wouldn’t have expected of an experienced Mafia player. Firstly, and most importantly, making the role claim at all. When you’re a town power role the best thing you can do is deflect attention if a lynch mob heads your way. I’ve looked back over the pressure he was under and the timeline he was on and I think he had enough time to argue his way out of the lynch without claiming. I think he could have wiggled out of it early, and would have if he’d been playing from the start and had a better feel for the other players and been able to read some of their tells or had a longer history with the other players. I think the substitution hurt here. A doctor revealed isn’t much better than a doctor dead. The second mistake he made, and this one cost him his life, was to get caught up in the excitement around **Hockey Monkey** (formerly **pimaspinner** ) when she claimed. A beat cop is not worth protecting, especially by a doctor who has already been outed. If he were still under the radar it may have been worth it, but as this game has shown, and an experienced player should have already known, they’re just a confounding role. Let the beat cop take a bullet, keep protecting yourself unless a higher-value townie is exposed(like a second detective or miller). Doctor is more valuable Beat Cop and should be protected. All in all, though good game everyone. And quite a marathon! Enjoy, Steven [/QUOTE] It’s worth noting that by the time **JSexton** made his role claim, we had already identified him as the doctor in the simplest way possible. The previous night, we had decided to kill him because he had pointed a lot of fingers at townies during the Day - we figured if he died, the town would look at his posts and start thinking in the wrong directions. The next morning he wasn’t dead. With Blaster Master still alive, another Doctor would have had no reason to protect **JSexton**. The only thing that made any sense was that he was the Doctor and protecting himself. I think he might have realized this, and made his role claim because he figured the scum had already identified him. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3935 "2007-05-16T18:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] I also have to admit my role in getting JSexton killed. I led the charge against him that resulted in his Doctor claim. [/QUOTE] I think that the scum already knew that he was the Doctor at that point. They tried to kill him a failed, and figured that he was the Doctor and had self-protected. Anyway, don’t feel too bad. I led the initial charge against **chrisk** , **Pleonast** , **Gadarene** , **Blaster Master** and **MadTheSwine** way back in day 2. I also rode **JSexton** pretty hard. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3936 "2007-05-16T18:42:03Z")
Fair enough, remind me though, how would he have known he was fingered by the scum? If he protected himself, and there were less than the full number of night kills, two things could have happened. Either he blocked a kill targeting him, or the Mafia or SK didn’t kill. The Vig has to kill each night. Still, the odds that either group would choose no kill would be very small so he could assume he had been fingered by one of the three(and **Blaster Master** was already revealed at that point). I guess the switching of the protection from the high-value Doctor to the low value Beat Cop would have been a bigger mistake. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3937 "2007-05-16T18:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mtgman] Fair enough, remind me though, how would he have known he was fingered by the scum? If he protected himself, and there were less than the full number of night kills, two things could have happened. Either he blocked a kill targeting him, or the Mafia or SK didn’t kill. The Vig has to kill each night. Still, the odds that either group would choose no kill would be very small so he could assume he had been fingered by one of the three(and **Blaster Master** was already revealed at that point). I guess the switching of the protection from the high-value Doctor to the low value Beat Cop would have been a bigger mistake. Enjoy, Steven [/QUOTE] I don’t have the PM anymore, but he told me that he thought he gave himself away the night he self protected and the mafia pinged him. I don’t know what his reasoning was, but he did know. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3938 "2007-05-16T19:10:06Z")
Counting the night kills is the most likely way. The only situations where you’d have less than the full complement would be either multiple kills on the same target(as with **CarieD** on night 2), a blocked kill(as with night 3 when **JSexton** blocked the mafia hit on him), or the SK/Mafia choosing no kill(which according to your spreadsheet may have happened on night 8 where there was only the SK’s kill). A blocked kill is the most likely explanation though so it would have been the logical conclusion that he’d been fingered by someone. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3939 "2007-05-16T19:55:16Z")
Woohoo! Mafia rule! Wow, I must have been convincing. Looks like **cowgirl** v2.0 protected me on Night 7. Cool. 🆒 Is it too early to ask for a part in Mafia IV? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/3940 "2007-05-16T20:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] Is it too early to ask for a part in Mafia IV? [/QUOTE] No, but see the companion thread if you want in on the pirate game - it’s too early to host it here so I’ll have to either wait or take it off-board according to demand. Links will be provided so the peanut gallery can still follow progress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=198)