# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1261 "2007-04-03T15:41:21Z")
Not meaning to complicate things unnecessarily, but I think this would be a good idea: settle on TWO targets for Blaster Master, depending on what is revealed upon the lynching. (Since we aren’t allowed to strategize AFTER the hanging, we must think ahead.) Among the ‘Big Three’, we seem to agree that Queuing/Gadarene are on the same side, and Pleonast on the other. Queuing suggests we kill one from each side for maximum info and to insure at least one mafia kill. I propose this instead: 1. We hang one of the duo (that is, Queuing or Gadarene.) 2. We use a conditional assignment for the target for BlasterMaster as follows: a) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was Mafia then BM kills his ‘partner’. (IOW, if we kill Queuing, and he is in fact scum, BM kills Gadarene. Or flop Gadarene/Queuing in the roles.) b) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was town then BM kills the odd one out, that is, Peoonast. If A is the case, we likely get TWO dead mafia. (And maybe the SK/VIG can make it three.) At worst, we get Case B, which is effectively identical to what Queuing suggested, and we get at least one Mafia and a bunch of info. How’s that for a plan? (And now I must run off. See you all in 10 hours.) ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1262 "2007-04-03T15:41:39Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] Well it looks like I am about to hang. Which is fine, if we just get this damn day over with. I hope you gain a lot of information from my death. I ask that, since sides have been clearly drawn, that the town requests **BM** kills someone from the other side. In other words, **Pleonast or Zuma**. This would give the most information. One from each side, you get ti find out who is lieing. Of course it would be REALLY funny if none of us are, we are all town and just think differently. I submit if that happens we go back to **Rysto’s** post, and lynch **JSexton**. [/QUOTE] This seems like more of a town attitude than that of mafia. It shakes my confidence of **Queuing’s** scumminess. At least his death should tell us something about alliances, I just hope he’s the right choice to hang. As for **BM** , I’ve re-read this thread and his posts are consistent with that of a Vig. If I were the Vig, I would try to get people talk as much as possible to flush out the SK. I’m not saying that I 100% believe him, I’m just saying that I haven’t found any holes in his story. I guess tomorrow will be revealing. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1263 "2007-04-03T15:43:03Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] BM does not get a choice, and if I had my way neither would you two. I find it suspicious that Malacandra wants to give BM a choice too. [/QUOTE] Sorry, did I say that? I’m having trouble keeping up here. Obviously the Vig should do as he’s told, not as he likes. I thought I was implicitly endorsing that by oranging Zuma above. Personally I value my life at a straw, but who wants to weaken the town voting bloc more? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1264 "2007-04-03T15:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > How’s that for a plan? Replace **Pleonast** with “ **Pleonast** or **zuma** ” and I like it just fine. Just be aware that whether or not **Queuing** is scum, you’ll be killing a citizen if you target me. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1265 "2007-04-03T15:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=JSexton] Another part of that issue is that we won’t be able to find out the first lynch’s alignment until we’ve already settled on a target for Blaster. That means that death isn’t maximizing the information available. [/QUOTE] This is a good point, and I have a suggestion on that front, but first, my vote. I am all but completely convinced that **Queuing** is a townie. I was very suspicious of him (him?) for some time, but his statements in the last few pages are so pro-town in so many ways that I can no longer maintain that suspicion. Still, I won’t throw my vote in his direction. **Gadarene** has done nothing to dispell my suspicions from earlier in the game, but nothing in particular to exacerbate them, either. I’d honestly prefer to consider candidates outside of these three (**Gadarene, Pleonast, Queuing),** but the town as a whole seems to feel that sticking with these three candidates is a good idea. In light of my near-certainty regarding **Queuing** ’s alignment and **Pleonast’s** recent role claim, I will somewhat reluctantly vote Gadarene Now, my suggestion. **JSexton’s** point above is well-taken; we cannot direct **BlasterMaster** in his night kill planning after we’ve learned the alignment of whoever we plan to lynch. However, we know that whoever we lynch can be only one of four things: (1) Mafia; (2) the SK; (3) a townie of some stripe; or (4) the vigilante. Of course, if our lynch target turns out to be the vigilante, then directing **Blaster Master** will be pointless; he’ll be our lynch tomorrow. For any other case, though, what I think we \*could \* do is create a conditional direction for **Blaster Master** prior to finalizing our lynch selection. That is, say we settle on lynching **Queuing,** as seems most likely right now. Once we’ve settled that, but before our 12 hours are up, could we not say to **Blaster Master** , “if **Queuing** turns out to be town, then assassinate X, but if he’s scum, assassinate Y?” I haven’t perhaps thought through this idea as carefully as I should, but I wanted to get it out there for comment before it got too late in the Day. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1266 "2007-04-03T15:45:30Z")
[QUOTE=StarvingButStrong] Not meaning to complicate things unnecessarily, but I think this would be a good idea: settle on TWO targets for Blaster Master, depending on what is revealed upon the lynching. (Since we aren’t allowed to strategize AFTER the hanging, we must think ahead.) Among the ‘Big Three’, we seem to agree that Queuing/Gadarene are on the same side, and Pleonast on the other. Queuing suggests we kill one from each side for maximum info and to insure at least one mafia kill. I propose this instead: 1. We hang one of the duo (that is, Queuing or Gadarene.) 2. We use a conditional assignment for the target for BlasterMaster as follows: a) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was Mafia then BM kills his ‘partner’. (IOW, if we kill Queuing, and he is in fact scum, BM kills Gadarene. Or flop Gadarene/Queuing in the roles.) b) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was town then BM kills the odd one out, that is, Peoonast. If A is the case, we likely get TWO dead mafia. (And maybe the SK/VIG can make it three.) At worst, we get Case B, which is effectively identical to what Queuing suggested, and we get at least one Mafia and a bunch of info. How’s that for a plan? (And now I must run off. See you all in 10 hours.) [/QUOTE] Sounds good. We need a conditional instruction for the Vig if we want to cover this kind of situation, because night starts as soon as the lynching goes off. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1267 "2007-04-03T15:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] JSexton, I strongly disagree with your point about getting rid of the vig (or, by extension, SK) at this point. The town is down 6, and mafia is down 0. Things are going to be a lot clearer tomorrow, and keeping the vig alive, even though the serial killer needs to eventually die, seems important. [/quote] I’ve addressed why I consider the lynch to be vastly superior to a vig or directed SK. I’ve seen games that the town had in hand slip away because of poor vigging. The role is only slightly better than a vanilla townie, and can often be a huge liability. I mean, the vig, whoever it is, has killed at least one town and possibly two already. > [@](#): > > You’re obviously an experienced player, and you’re an experienced player taking on the role of someone who advocated a fishing for cops scenario, yet who denounced that idea in the original werewolf observation thread. You’re also taking on the role of someone who said last (game) night that they were against the cooling off period, and defended it by saying that they didn’t want to make waves after screwing up the cop-fishing plan. You don’t make waves by going against what was then a unanimous vote in favor of it. Can’t argue with you there. As I was skimming the thread before I came in, I had chrisk as leaning scum. I cannot defend any of his previous play. > [@](#): > > I think there is a very good chance you are scum, and if so, you are a very dangerous person to leave in this game. True. Of course, I’d be good to have on your side as town. > [@](#): > > I’m back and forth on whether chrisk was just completely inexperienced or not, but it is important for the town to not forget his actions, nor the fact that we have a veteran player now taking over his role. I’m going to focus on the people currently under suspicion, but I’m not going to let you off the hook by any means. > > I’ll be taking a good, hard look at you (game) tomorrow. I’d expect nothing less. There will be plenty of content from me to analyze. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1268 "2007-04-03T15:47:05Z")
[QUOTE=StarvingButStrong] Not meaning to complicate things unnecessarily, but I think this would be a good idea: settle on TWO targets for Blaster Master, depending on what is revealed upon the lynching. (Since we aren’t allowed to strategize AFTER the hanging, we must think ahead.) Among the ‘Big Three’, we seem to agree that Queuing/Gadarene are on the same side, and Pleonast on the other. Queuing suggests we kill one from each side for maximum info and to insure at least one mafia kill. I propose this instead: 1. We hang one of the duo (that is, Queuing or Gadarene.) 2. We use a conditional assignment for the target for BlasterMaster as follows: a) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was Mafia then BM kills his ‘partner’. (IOW, if we kill Queuing, and he is in fact scum, BM kills Gadarene. Or flop Gadarene/Queuing in the roles.) b) IF NAF reveals that the person we hung was town then BM kills the odd one out, that is, Peoonast. If A is the case, we likely get TWO dead mafia. (And maybe the SK/VIG can make it three.) At worst, we get Case B, which is effectively identical to what Queuing suggested, and we get at least one Mafia and a bunch of info. How’s that for a plan? (And now I must run off. See you all in 10 hours.) [/QUOTE] This sounds like a good plan to me. I think we’ll maximize our chances of killing Mafia by doing this. Unless of course, all three of them are town, but I just can’t believe that’s possible. So, **Blaster Master** , please to be killing as outlined above. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1269 "2007-04-03T15:48:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless of course, all three of them are town, but I just can’t believe that’s possible. I think it’s perfectly possible. Unlikely, but perfectly possible. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1270 "2007-04-03T15:48:49Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] For any other case, though, what I think we \*could \* do is create a conditional direction for **Blaster Master** prior to finalizing our lynch selection. That is, say we settle on lynching **Queuing,** as seems most likely right now. Once we’ve settled that, but before our 12 hours are up, could we not say to **Blaster Master** , “if **Queuing** turns out to be town, then assassinate X, but if he’s scum, assassinate Y?” I haven’t perhaps thought through this idea as carefully as I should, but I wanted to get it out there for comment before it got too late in the Day. Thoughts? [/QUOTE] It’s a good theory. The trouble is getting a consensus. Keep in mind that there are several people among us who know Queuing’s alignment already. Those people can use that knowledge to manipulate the conditional statement to be certain that a townie gets killed during the night. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1271 "2007-04-03T15:49:56Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] I think it’s perfectly possible. Unlikely, but perfectly possible. [/QUOTE] Which is, of course, exactly what a mobster would say in this situation 😛 –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1272 "2007-04-03T15:50:14Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Replace **Pleonast** with “ **Pleonast** or **zuma** ” and I like it just fine. Just be aware that whether or not **Queuing** is scum, you’ll be killing a citizen if you target me. [/QUOTE] Just vote for me. Pleonast claimed and he’ll be outed soon enough if he’s full of it. Then we can get together and hug when we string his ass up. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1273 "2007-04-03T15:55:25Z")
**zuma:** > [@](#): > > Just vote for me. Pleonast claimed and he’ll be outed soon enough if he’s full of it. Then we can get together and hug when we string his ass up. Good, I agree. My preference would be for **Blaster Master** (if he _is_ the Vig) to target me if **Queuing** is scum, and you if **Queuing** is town. With everyone keeping in mind that **Pleonast** has just role-claimed a completely falsifiable position. **FCOD:** > [@](#): > > Which is, of course, exactly what a mobster would say in this situation _shrug_ I dunno, maybe. In light of **Pleonast’s** role-claim, I have to at least consider the possibility that I’m wrong about him (him?). And I’ve already stated that I don’t know for sure that **Queuing** is town, although it would surprise me if he wasn’t. And I’m, y’know, damn well positive that if I get targeted, you’ll all get to see my vanilla-white underbelly, just as I’ve claimed for the last ten-odd pages. Like I said, it’s possible the Mafia’s just lying relatively low and letting us all do their dirty work for them in the name of paranoia and snap judgments. If so, they must think this is hilarious. It’s just like _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_. If _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_ had mobsters snickering from the wings. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1274 "2007-04-03T15:57:31Z")
Is it really a good idea to let **Queuing** make a martyr of himself? Townies are already dropping like flys and it seems that **Queuing** is willing to get himself lynched just to move the game along. Unless, of course, it’s mafia that is casting the doubt and they are working together. I think that we should lynch someone with less of a compelling arguement. I hate that I’m doing all this flip-flopping, but I can’t be a part of this lynching. **Queuing** will still have 10 votes without me, but this gives others a chance to back out. Unvote **Queuing** ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1275 "2007-04-03T15:57:42Z")
Just in case of a tie, or something, and then that is how BM chooses and tries to convince people that it was all he could do, I am going to: unvote Zuma Lynch Pleonast And reiterate my desire to see Zuma assassinated. The assassination count is as follows: **4** Zuma - (Queuing, Pygmy, Gadarene, Malacandra) **1** Gadarene - (Pleonast) On preview, those are good ideas. And rather simple to solve. If I turn out to scum, BM kill Gadarene. As I am town, then just go ahead and kill Zuma. That way we don’t interfere in any role claims. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1276 "2007-04-03T15:58:00Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] What’s with the **zuma** vote anyway? It was started by **Queuing**! Think people! [/QUOTE] The assasinate **zuma** vote? It’s the Column A/B thing. If **Queuing** is, in fact, town, it’s either you ( **Pleonast** ) or **zuma**. If it turns out he’s scum, **Gadarene** gets it. If this doesn’t happen, we get **BM** tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1277 "2007-04-03T16:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] Is it really a good idea to let **Queuing** make a martyr of himself? Townies are already dropping like flys and it seems that **Queuing** is willing to get himself lynched just to move the game along. Unless, of course, it’s mafia that is casting the doubt and they are working together. I think that we should lynch someone with less of a compelling arguement. I hate that I’m doing all this flip-flopping, but I can’t be a part of this lynching. **Queuing** will still have 10 votes without me, but this gives others a chance to back out. Unvote **Queuing** [/QUOTE] We have a deadline for noon tomorrow pacific. Let him make a martyr of himself. He needs to claim and we need to move on the the BM target. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1278 "2007-04-03T16:03:36Z")
**zuma:** > [@](#): > > Let him make a martyr of himself. He needs to claim and we need to move on the the BM target. He claimed already. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1279 "2007-04-03T16:05:06Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] We have a deadline for noon tomorrow pacific. Let him make a martyr of himself. He needs to claim and we need to move on the the BM target. [/QUOTE] I don’t see any compelling reason we shouldn’t direct **BM** to do anything other than my post directly above yours. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1280 "2007-04-03T16:05:23Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] **zuma:** He claimed already. [/QUOTE] I must have missed it. What did he claim? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=65)