# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1421 "2007-04-03T19:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] I’ve got your number, **Blaster Master**. You’re running scared. You think 'll cop to a brain fever or something and say “Sorry, folks. Letting **Blaster Master** off the hook was a _great_ idea. Except for that poor, innocent ownie he “accidentally” killed last night”. :: Throws hat on ground :: No, sir. I won’t do it. You’re Mafia! Through and through. I can’t believe we let you walk. And now it looks like **Q’s** gonna walk, too. [/QUOTE] It looks like everyone else missed the train you’re riding. **Serial Killer:** Please hit **Winston Smith** , there’s no doubt in my mind he’s scum. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1422 "2007-04-03T19:24:52Z")
Since nobody has counterclaimed, I believe Pleonast and Zuma are Masons. I still like the plan, but it needs adjusting: 1. Lynch Queuing today 2. If Queuing is Mafia, Blaster Master kills Gadarene 3. If Queuing is Town, Blaster Master kills Autolycus\* 4. The Doctor protects Blaster Master (or Pleonast or Zuma) 5. If Blaster Master fails to kill, we discuss it \*I’m ready to fall in with suggested changes here, but I suggest him because: - he doesn’t post much of use - he recently voted for Menocchio (despite our detective’s backing) ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1423 "2007-04-03T19:27:59Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] snip I claimed, because I was being set up by Queuing and Gadarene as the Vig kill. snip [/QUOTE] Wrong. I pretty damn quickly went after Zuma. He seemed much more suspicious to me, in regards to the vig kill. Your claim was at the time it was done, almost completely unnecessary. We were well on our way to lynching me (I believe I had 8, and had asked Gadarene and Pygmy to vote for me), while you had 6 (I believe, I didn’t go back to check). I had already stated my desire for Zuma to be the vig kill, and he had votes to make him the vig kill. You claimed with no reason to claim. Now we are using 1 unverified mason to confirm a second unverified mason? 2 people who have been working together all game? No one has had time to counterclaim. And why would we believe a 1 person counterclaim? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1424 "2007-04-03T19:28:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] I’ve never played this game before, but it was my understanding that the Masons were supposed to try and keep it to themselves. If that wasn’t the case, why don’t they just all announce, on the first day “Hey, look at us, we’re all Masons”? Then, they would be unlynchable by the town, but the Mafia would simply pick them all off, one by one. Sure, the game would start off with 1 to 1 kills, but in the endgame, when the Masons are more useful, they wouldn’t be available, and the Mafia would have the advantage. I’m not saying that it would have been good for the Masons to die. I’m saying that now, the Mafia know who three town power roles are. That’s not very advantageous to us. [/QUOTE] You misunderstand. 🙂 The Masons keep their identities secret until they need announce to help the rest of the Town. In this case, both Pleonast and Zuma did so only when faced with a lynching. The Town has got off to a shaky start, and now there seem to be two opposing groups. Once we start killing Mafia, there should be several further clear Mafia to lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1425 "2007-04-03T19:28:36Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Well, here’s my new proposed plan: We lynch **Gadarene** , if he’s scum, I target **Queuing** , otherwise I target **JSexton**. If the SK is on our side, I’d recommend he has two options, either go after one of **Aguecheek** , **WinstonSmith** , **Pygmy Rugger**. Depedning on how tonight roles out, we can discuss when we want to go for the SK. I predict 50% probability the SK is **hocow** , 20% chance the SK is **Autolycus** , and 30% chance it’s someone under my radar. [/QUOTE] I called you guys out, and now _you’re_ telling _us_ the “new plan”? I thought you were gonna do what you’re told, in exchange for your life? You’re our goddamned dog now, and you’ve been neutered. Here’s you’re marching orders. Stick to the script, and no funny business. [QUOTE=Blaster Master] I’m not comfortable targetting **Zuma** , because I’m quite sure he’s town. I’m also worried about the scenario that \*\*Queuing \*\* knows he’s done, so he and **Gadarene** pretend to agree, knowing that both are scum, and knowing I’ll target **Gadarene** tonight. But what if **Gadarene** is the GF? Then this seemingly discredits me, and I get lynched tomorrow. This is why, at this point, I would prefer to lynch Gadarene and put the conditionals on **Queuing** and **Zuma**. However, it looks like the following plan is the concensus: Lynch **Queuing** , if he is town, I target **Zuma** , otherwise target **Gadarene**. However, before this day ends, I want to also figure out this angle: If my target fails to die, that means either I’m the SK and chose not to kill, I’m mafia and the target is mafia, or I’m the VIG and the target is the GF. In the second case, I think the solution is lynch the guy that I failed to kill, if he comes up mafia, lynch me the next day. In the third case, lynch him, if he comes up GF, I’m pretty much cleared as definitely the VIG. In the first case, I would be an SK basically conceding defeat, in which case we either lynch my target the next day, and then use that information to determine whether or not I was the SK, and then lynch me the next day. As far as I can tell, it looks like if my target tonight fails, we’d gain more information by lynching him tomorrow, and if he doesn’t exonerate me, lynch me the day after. I’m pointing that out now, because I don’t want it to look like post hoc reasoning. [/QUOTE] I don’t want any fresh talk out of you, and I definitely don’t want you proposing any “new plan”. I hope that wasn’t too harsh. If so, no offense meant, mate. Just playing the game ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1426 "2007-04-03T19:29:53Z")
Here’s my thought: Gadarene has been pushing twice for someone other than him be targetted by me if Queuing turns up town. Since I think we’re all 100% convinced Gadarene is mafia, but only moderately convinced Queuing is, this looks like it’s two options: \*\*Queuing \*\* is town, and **Gadarene** know it, and it’s a tactic to avoid him being targetted as well. Thus, **Queuing** is only proposing it because he was fooled. or **Queuing** is mafia and **Gadarene** is the GF, at which point me targetting him would cast doubt on me (hence my earlier proposal). If you agree with my logic, please vote to lynch **Gadarene** , and I’ll attack based on the scheme I laid out above. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1427 "2007-04-03T19:32:19Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] I called you guys out, and now _you’re_ telling _us_ the “new plan”? I thought you were gonna do what you’re told, in exchange for your life? You’re our goddamned dog now, and you’ve been neutered. Here’s you’re marching orders. Stick to the script, and no funny business. I don’t want any fresh talk out of you, and I definitely don’t want you proposing any “new plan”. I hope that wasn’t too harsh. If so, no offense meant, mate. Just playing the game [/QUOTE] [No offense taken.] Sorry, **Winston** , but I’m convinced you’re scum, and it looks like you’re trying to grasp at straws because maybe I was right that **Queuing** really isn’t scum. I’m looking to see if any of those who unvoted **Queuing** agree with my logic. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1428 "2007-04-03T19:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] It looks like everyone else missed the train you’re riding. **Serial Killer:** Please hit **Winston Smith** , there’s no doubt in my mind he’s scum. [/QUOTE] Bull. You know I’m town, and you guys have wrapped up every angle. You’ve orchestrated things so the doc’s gonna protect you from the SK, you’ve got another night to kill townies, maybe **Q** is actually innocent and playing into this elaborate hoax of yours, but I doubt it. I’ve nailed it. I’ve got you guys cold, and you’re appealing to the one place you can to do me in and still maintain the appearence of innocence. The SK. All very neat and tidy. You’ve thought of everything. This time tomorrow, those of us that are left are gonna see _all the cards on the table_. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1429 "2007-04-03T19:32:50Z")
One further thing. Since BM has claimed, and has nothing to gain by not sharing any information he has, how about an explanation of why you think Hocow is the the SK? If you feel as though this is a scum trick (because you still think I am scum), do so tomorrow if you must. Believing (I won’t say knowing, because we don’t KNOW anything, just like we don’t KNOW what the crumb was/is, we all just believe and think, I trust at some point the difference will be clear) who the SK is is helpful to all. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1430 "2007-04-03T19:32:53Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] … Now we are using 1 unverified mason to confirm a second unverified mason? 2 people who have been working together all game? No one has had time to counterclaim. And why would we believe a 1 person counterclaim? [/QUOTE] Well if all the (6?) Masons are unable to keep up, the Town is in real trouble anyway. There’s been plenty of time for a Mason to challenge the first claim (Pleonast). ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1431 "2007-04-03T19:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] [No offense taken.] Sorry, **Winston** , but I’m convinced you’re scum, and it looks like you’re trying to grasp at straws because maybe I was right that **Queuing** really isn’t scum. I’m looking to see if any of those who unvoted **Queuing** agree with my logic. [/QUOTE] Grasping at straws? Nonsense. I’ve got you dead to rights. You know it. I know it. Everyone else is gonna know it pretty soon. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1432 "2007-04-03T19:35:04Z")
I agree. I vote to lynch **Gadarene**. And, **Winston** you’re stinking like the Mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1433 "2007-04-03T19:35:24Z")
**Masons: STAY IN HIDING.** It would be very bad for the town if your identity became known, despit what **jsexton** and his crooked-nosed friends may say. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1434 "2007-04-03T19:35:55Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] Just saw this: Let’s try to remember that I am NOT in the game folks, I am running it (or trying to, you guys are a handfull). What I do shouldn’t seem fishy, I am not playing. Next time I will do my best to handle getting a particular players attention with a bit more grace, but me needing to talk to Zuma wasn’t a game tactic, since I AM NOT PLAYING THE GAME. Carry on. [/QUOTE] Having run both chess tournaments and Diplomacy games, I sympathise with you. Players can get ‘over-excited’ :eek: . I also foresee a twist to the next game - spectators get to bet on: - who will be killed at night - what the identity of the lynched victim will be - which side will win ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1435 "2007-04-03T19:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Since nobody has counterclaimed, I believe Pleonast and Zuma are Masons. I still like the plan, but it needs adjusting: 1. Lynch Queuing today 2. If Queuing is Mafia, Blaster Master kills Gadarene 3. If Queuing is Town, Blaster Master kills Autolycus\* 4. The Doctor protects Blaster Master (or Pleonast or Zuma) 5. If Blaster Master fails to kill, we discuss it \*I’m ready to fall in with suggested changes here, but I suggest him because: - he doesn’t post much of use - he recently voted for Menocchio (despite our detective’s backing) [/QUOTE] \*\*Zuma \*\* agreed with my logic, that **Pleonast** and \*\*Zuma \*\* should NOT be protected by the doctor; as long as one of them is alive, the other is essentially a vanilla townie, and the mafia would be foolish to waste a night kill on one of them knowing that there are other power roles out there to fish for. Also, my concern with targetting **Autolycus** is while he is an SK suspect in my eyes, if he’s either mafia or townie, he won’t really net us any information. I’d rather go after a more sure mafia, and worry more about the SK tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1436 "2007-04-03T19:39:00Z")
It’s now obvious to me that I totally suck at this game. 😕 I’m going to leave my vote, because I honestly have no idea where to put it, and I don’t think zuma is in any danger of a lynching. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1437 "2007-04-03T19:39:06Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] **Masons: STAY IN HIDING.** It would be very bad for the town if your identity became known, despit what **jsexton** and his crooked-nosed friends may say. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but this makes no sense. The Mafia outnumber the Masons, so if the Masons stay quiet, the Town lose in the end. In this particular game it’s certainly worth risking a Mason to get started on Mafia. I have to say that your recent posts are suspicious (and I speak as a chap who has supported Pleonast and been supported by both Pleonast and Zuma). ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1438 "2007-04-03T19:41:09Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] One further thing. Since BM has claimed, and has nothing to gain by not sharing any information he has, how about an explanation of why you think Hocow is the the SK? If you feel as though this is a scum trick (because you still think I am scum), do so tomorrow if you must. Believing (I won’t say knowing, because we don’t KNOW anything, just like we don’t KNOW what the crumb was/is, we all just believe and think, I trust at some point the difference will be clear) who the SK is is helpful to all. [/QUOTE] I do not wish to discuss my suspicion of **hocow** at this time, because it will muddy the water futher. However, I will be more than willing to explain my suspicion tomorrow, after we get this mess figured out. If I forget to bring it up myself, will one of the survivors please remind me, if we decide that SK discussion is relevant tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1439 "2007-04-03T19:42:23Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] \*\*Zuma \*\* agreed with my logic, that **Pleonast** and \*\*Zuma \*\* should NOT be protected by the doctor; as long as one of them is alive, the other is essentially a vanilla townie, and the mafia would be foolish to waste a night kill on one of them knowing that there are other power roles out there to fish for. Also, my concern with targetting **Autolycus** is while he is an SK suspect in my eyes, if he’s either mafia or townie, he won’t really net us any information. I’d rather go after a more sure mafia, and worry more about the SK tomorrow. [/QUOTE] OK, I mentioned the Doctor possibly protecting Pleonast or Zuma to worry the Mafia over which victim would be protected. I put Autolycus forward as a first suggestion. If Queueing is Mafia, then Gadarene probably is too. But if Queueing is Mafia, who do you suggest we ask you to kill? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1440 "2007-04-03T19:43:22Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Sorry, but this makes no sense. The Mafia outnumber the Masons, so if the Masons stay quiet, the Town lose in the end. In this particular game it’s certainly worth risking a Mason to get started on Mafia. I have to say that your recent posts are suspicious (and I speak as a chap who has supported Pleonast and been supported by both Pleonast and Zuma). [/QUOTE] Mafia is trying to draw out the power roles. Get everyone’s names up in lights, so to speak [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=73)