# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1441 "2007-04-03T19:43:36Z")
> [@BM](#): > > We lynch Gadarene, if he’s scum, I target Queuing, otherwise I target JSexton. Ok, seeing as how Pleonast wouldn’t have voted for Gadarene if he’s a Mason, I’ll go along with this plan. Vote Gadarene. –FCOD ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1442 "2007-04-03T19:43:55Z")
In all honesty, I’m less suspicious of **Queuing** now than I am of **Winston Smith**. I would at least like to get **Gadarene** ’s lynching on the clock, and we can hash out the whole conditional thing thereafter since we don’t have to worry about \*\*Queuing \*\* or \*\*Gadarene \*\* role-claiming. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1443 "2007-04-03T19:45:24Z")
[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom] Ok, seeing as how Pleonast wouldn’t have voted for Gadarene if he’s a Mason, I’ll go along with this plan. Vote Gadarene. –FCOD [/QUOTE] 9 votes for **Gadarene** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1444 "2007-04-03T19:46:16Z")
I think lynching **Gadarene** is better, on the off chance he’s the God Father. He’s scum in any case. The Vig target should then be targeting **Queuing** , or possibly **Winston** or **JSexton**. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingCowOfDoom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyingcowofdoom/32/21776_2.png) [@FlyingCowOfDoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingCowOfDoom)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1445 "2007-04-03T19:46:38Z")
Vote count (details only for the ones that matter): (9) Gadarene - (Smitty, Blaster Master, nesta, ArizonaTeach, sturmhauke, storyteller0910, brewha, Pleonast, FlyingCowOfDoom) (8) Queuing - (StarvingButStrong, glee, Winston Smith, Pygmy Rugger, Malacandra, Gadarene, Fern Forest, JSexton) (3) Pleonast (2) Blaster Master (2) Pygmy Rugger (1) Menocchio (1) Zuma ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1446 "2007-04-03T19:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=glee] OK, I mentioned the Doctor possibly protecting Pleonast or Zuma to worry the Mafia over which victim would be protected. I put Autolycus forward as a first suggestion. If Queueing is Mafia, then Gadarene probably is too. But if Queueing is Mafia, who do you suggest we ask you to kill? [/QUOTE] I’m assuming your question is “if Queuing is townie?”. That’s why I propose we lynch **Gadarene** instead. There’s zero doubt in my mind that he’s mafia, and since I’m less convinced of **Queuing** ’s scumminess than of **Winston Smith** ’s, I’d rather kill him tonight, and we can decide on **Queuing** ’s fate tomorrow. Then, since so fewer express doubt in Gadarene’s innocence, I can target an alternate target that would still gain us information, like **JSexton** , or I can target a SK candidate like **hocow** , or **Autolycus** (or any other suggestions). Bottom line, I’ll give my suggestions, but I don’t want to act without the town’s blessings because I don’t want any post hoc reasoning going on. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1447 "2007-04-03T19:51:25Z")
**Zuma** , or **JSexton** , if you’re still around, can you switch your votes and start the clock? ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1448 "2007-04-03T19:53:15Z")
Dear God. You mean I might have voted for the correct person on my, what, third try? Woo hoo! Still wanna know why \*\*zuma’s \*\* posting like a crazed man. **Winston** , you better hope and pray that you’re right (which I am neither hoping nor praying for), because all you need is a giant neon arrow saying “I am scum” pointing at you to complete the image. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1449 "2007-04-03T19:55:08Z")
Assuming we can get a lynch on Gadarene, here’s my proposed plan of attack for the day/night: Lynch **Gadarene** , if he’s scum, target **Queuing/Winston Smith** , if he’s not, target **JSexton/Autolycus**. Then since there is some slight doubt about **Queuing** , I’d rather leave him off at this point, and make him suspect number one tomorrow. Or, even let him be investigated by a beat cop. Speaking of which, if a beat cop wants to investigate me to vindicate me in the event that the SK claims, please do so. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1450 "2007-04-03T20:00:50Z")
vote: Gadarene ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1451 "2007-04-03T20:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] **Zuma** , or **JSexton** , if you’re still around, can you switch your votes and start the clock? [/QUOTE] I’ll do it, I’ve believed in **Q** for awhile now. Unvote Queuing. Vote Gaderine. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1452 "2007-04-03T20:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] vote: Gadarene [/QUOTE] 1am pst \*\*Gadarene \*\* is lynched ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1453 "2007-04-03T20:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Assuming we can get a lynch on Gadarene, here’s my proposed plan of attack for the day/night: Lynch **Gadarene** , if he’s scum, target **Queuing/Winston Smith** , if he’s not, target **JSexton/Autolycus**. Then since there is some slight doubt about **Queuing** , I’d rather leave him off at this point, and make him suspect number one tomorrow. Or, even let him be investigated by a beat cop. Speaking of which, if a beat cop wants to investigate me to vindicate me in the event that the SK claims, please do so. [/QUOTE] Again with you proposing plans. You made a deal. The deal was you life in return for doing the town’s bidding. You agreed to that, and now, while you’re not exactly welching on your deal, you’re not exactly holding up you end of it, either. You do what you’re told. You don’t get to choose. You;ve received your instructions in BIG GREEN LETTERS. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1454 "2007-04-03T20:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] vote: Gadarene [/QUOTE] {Coloring removed to reduce confusion} Thanks, that should start the clock at 4:00PM EST (1:00PM NAF’s time, right?). Can we now start working on my conditional kills? I laid out my prefered plan above, but am, of course, open to town suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1455 "2007-04-03T20:07:02Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Well if all the (6?) Masons are unable to keep up, the Town is in real trouble anyway. There’s been plenty of time for a Mason to challenge the first claim (Pleonast). [/QUOTE] Pleonast claimed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424175&postcount=1243) just so we can see the progression. It was at 11:16am, about 4.5 hours ago. It is not inconceivable that the masons have not read this yet. It might not be a matter of keeping up, as much of a matter of being at work and unable to post. Not really shocking if that were the case. Regardless in no way should the other masons try now, in my opinion. Unless 1 single mason counterclaim would be good enough for you. Well on preview, it seems that the clock is desired to start for **Gadarene**. Heck, I still think he is town, but like he said about me, all I know is I am town. If Gadarene is town whom do we direct MB to kill? We 100% trust Zuma and Pleonast now. IMO if Gadarene is town, we kill Zuma. If he is scum, then I guess the old plan would have to been to kill me, so lets do that. Of course, I know I am town. I don’t necessarily trust these role claims, but I have to say, my distrust of Blaster Master is fading. Well it was until he know starts to ask for the Beat cop to ID themselves. Let us not have anymore role claims. We need to verify that which we do have. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1456 "2007-04-03T20:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] Again with you proposing plans. You made a deal. The deal was you life in return for doing the town’s bidding. You agreed to that, and now, while you’re not exactly welching on your deal, you’re not exactly holding up you end of it, either. You do what you’re told. You don’t get to choose. You;ve received your instructions in BIG GREEN LETTERS. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t get to free lance if I want to live, but I still get a voice and I still get to make recommendations, and it looks like people are agreeing with my logic, at least as far as lynching **Gadarene** goes. Since he’s now the lynchee, that makes the old instructions obsolete, and there’s \*\*NO WAY \*\* I’m going to target **Zuma** or **Pleonast** without at least one counter-claim and, even then, that is better hashed out tomorrow. So here’s your chance, **Gadarene** will get lynched, give me the conditional targets that you propose, and we can discuss them. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1457 "2007-04-03T20:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] Of course, I know I am town. I don’t necessarily trust these role claims, but I have to say, my distrust of Blaster Master is fading. Well it was until he know starts to ask for the Beat cop to ID themselves. Let us not have anymore role claims. We need to verify that which we do have. [/QUOTE] To clear this up, I am **NOT** asking for a beat cop role claim. I am simply asking them to gather the information, if they deem it necessary, in the event that it is needed. They can gather the information, and never have to role claim; I just want the information there in the even it is needed. My apologies if I was not clear. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1458 "2007-04-03T20:17:49Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] Pleonast claimed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424175&postcount=1243) just so we can see the progression. It was at 11:16am, about 4.5 hours ago. It is not inconceivable that the masons have not read this yet. It might not be a matter of keeping up, as much of a matter of being at work and unable to post. Not really shocking if that were the case. Regardless in no way should the other masons try now, in my opinion. Unless 1 single mason counterclaim would be good enough for you. Well on preview, it seems that the clock is desired to start for **Gadarene**. Heck, I still think he is town, but like he said about me, all I know is I am town. If Gadarene is town whom do we direct MB to kill? We 100% trust Zuma and Pleonast now. IMO if Gadarene is town, we kill Zuma. If he is scum, then I guess the old plan would have to been to kill me, so lets do that. [/QUOTE] IMO, if they are not masons, we’re better of waiting to clear that up tomorrow, but since it appears more likely than not that they are, I don’t want to target either of them tonight. If it turns out that they are, in fact, lying, we can lynch one and I can target the other tomorrow night. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1459 "2007-04-03T20:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] To clear this up, I am **NOT** asking for a beat cop role claim. I am simply asking them to gather the information, if they deem it necessary, in the event that it is needed. They can gather the information, and never have to role claim; I just want the information there in the even it is needed. My apologies if I was not clear. [/QUOTE] So know you are saying the beat cop should be gathering info? Umm, what do you think s/he has been doing? I sure as hell hope they have some info at least, 2 nights worth in fact. But for the love of god, do not claim. How are we to clear up the mason fact or not? I just don’t see how it can be done without multiple masons counter-claiming? Or is one enough? I am asking this honestly, I don’t see how we can just blindly accept their claim if one is NOT enough. If all it takes is one, then ok, I agree with you. However, I see your logic. I see believing their role claim. I have been believing all other ones (ie Chrisk) no matter how stupid it seemed they were at that time, so why should I switch at this time? Therefore I will ask the 2 Masons who we should direct BM at? (Other then myself, for arguments sake) I suppose my suggestion is for **AguaCheek** or **JSexton**. I can explain if need be ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1460 "2007-04-03T20:31:26Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] Really? We have an unconfirmed Mason claim by someone mistrusted by most of the town and you’re saying the best thing is that _another_ Mason should out themselves to vouch for him? **jsexton** : you are dirty. That **STINKS** of Mafia. I can’t believe I fell for your BS before, man. [/QUOTE] Unbelievable. Look, if a player stepped out and said “No,Plenast isn’t a mason, I am!” Then one of the two is lying. That means we get to trade a townie for a scum, which is massively in our favor. There is zero reason for a townie to lie about being a mason. That’s why it was such a horrible, horrible play when you did it last game. I wasn’t asking a mason to confirm another, only to counterclaim if the first was lying. As for the question of how many masons would need to counter claim both Pleonast and Zuma, well, two of course. That way, no matter who’s lying, we have two 1:1 trades again. Good times all around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=74)