# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1561 "2007-04-04T04:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=StarvingButStrong] Trying to think this through, with way too many posts and counter posts whirring in my head, it seems to me that the telling point is that Gadarene was relatively calm when Q was the designated ‘test lynch’ and much less so when G got the role. Which could be ordinary ‘hey, my neck’s in danger of being stretched’ reaction, but it also fits perfectly if G is in fact mafia and Q town. As mafia, G would know that Q isn’t. Which means he knew that Q would be declared town, and not only would G be safe from being the designated BM target this night, but it would give him a great gloss of townishness, too, in a lot of minds. In contrast, if G was town, he couldn’t be sure if Q was or not. Thus he would naturally fear being killed mistakenly for Q’s guilt. (Is that right? Rereads. Okay.) So an innocent G should have been more worried about Q being the test lynchee, while a scum G could have smugly sat back and awaited all sorts of good things: the lynching of another townie, his own safety, a burnishing of his rep. I think G’s posts today fit the scum pattern better than the town one. [/QUOTE] Either I am really tired, or this is some of the best reasoning I’ve heard so far. I’m not comfortable with a non-conditional VIG kill, but I don’t want to kill Queuing right now. So change me to plan 1, reluctantly. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1562 "2007-04-04T04:52:23Z")
You know what? I’ve changed my mind. Vote plan 2 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1563 "2007-04-04T04:57:15Z")
Wow, I thought this would be cut and dry, and everyone keeps changin’ their minds. It’s now 7 for plan 1 and 8 for plan 2 ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1564 "2007-04-04T04:59:57Z")
Bwaahaaahaaaahaaahaaa! I give up. Gadarene will be lynched, and then possible three more people will die in the night. We couldn’t make up our minds about the lynching, and now we can’t make up our minds on a plan for the VIG hit. ::: pulling out hair::: ::: rocking back and forth::: ::: quietly weeping::: I can’t wait for tomorrow, both in game and IRL. Should be interesting to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1565 "2007-04-04T05:01:03Z")
I realize this may be way to late, but if **Gad** were scum, I gotta believe he would have made a false claim. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1566 "2007-04-04T05:08:29Z")
I’m voting for plan two, not because I necessarily think it’s the better plan, but because I don’t WANT \*\*Blaster Master \*\* to choose between the two options…as someone pointed out earlier, we don’t want wiggle room here. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1567 "2007-04-04T05:15:42Z")
How did **Winston Smith** end up being the chosen target anyway? I just checked the last 10 pages of the thread, and it’s **Blaster Master** harping on **Winston** the most. I thought this whole vote thing was a test of his role claim–isn’t that what the whole argument with **zuma** was? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1568 "2007-04-04T05:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] I realize this may be way to late, but if **Gad** were scum, I gotta believe he would have made a false claim. [/QUOTE] IIRC, he had already claimed vanilla-townie before he even had a threatening number of votes (maybe 2 or 3). If he had decided to go with something else, then he’d be caught in a lie. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1569 "2007-04-04T05:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] I’m voting for plan two, not because I necessarily think it’s the better plan, but because I don’t WANT \*\*Blaster Master \*\* to choose between the two options…as someone pointed out earlier, we don’t want wiggle room here. [/QUOTE] Yeah this needs to be cut and dry.In fact, I think **BM** should not vote at all,but if \*\*Gad \*\* is town **Winston** is done for anyhow.I don’t have the energy to go back and look right now, but who proposed these two plans? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1570 "2007-04-04T05:28:59Z")
Wow. I’ve just read all the new posts after twenty-four hours away from the computer, and I feel like my head is about to explode. (Incidentally, the reason I have not been posting much is a) I’ve been halfway across the country on a job interview; and b) at this point I haven’t the foggiest idea who’s on which side, and I’m inclined to think posting when I _don’t_ know anything is more likely to hurt than help.) First off, unvote Pleonast. I don’t have any better ideas about whom to vote for, but it looks like y’all have pretty much got the lynch vote covered in any case. I really don’t think we can tell anything at all from who sides with whom, because at this point, it’s too easy for townies to suspect townies in the absence of any further information, and also really easy for the Mafia to set up fake factions. (The one exception is Pleonast and zuma, who clearly _are_ on the same side, and I’m going to assume that side is town in the absence of any counter-claims.) That being the case, I’m going to vote plan 1, because it’s nice and straightforward, and I don’t see any reason to assume that people from opposite factions are actually on opposite _sides_. Frankly, the Town seems to be doing a marvelously efficient job of pitting itself against itself, possibly with some Mafia help, and I’d be a lot more suspicious of the folks who _have_ been posting a lot than those who haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1571 "2007-04-04T05:32:14Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Yeah this needs to be cut and dry.In fact, I think **BM** should not vote at all,but if \*\*Gad \*\* is town **Winston** is done for anyhow.I don’t have the energy to go back and look right now, but who proposed these two plans? [/QUOTE] **Blaster Master** ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1572 "2007-04-04T05:33:09Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] How did **Winston Smith** end up being the chosen target anyway? I just checked the last 10 pages of the thread, and it’s **Blaster Master** harping on **Winston** the most. I thought this whole vote thing was a test of his role claim–isn’t that what the whole argument with **zuma** was? 😕 [/QUOTE] To test his role it does not matter who he kills. Anyone will do. I vote for plan 1. I will now patiently wait for Winston Smith’s role claim. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1573 "2007-04-04T05:36:16Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] How did **Winston Smith** end up being the chosen target anyway? I just checked the last 10 pages of the thread, and it’s **Blaster Master** harping on **Winston** the most. I thought this whole vote thing was a test of his role claim–isn’t that what the whole argument with **zuma** was? 😕 [/QUOTE] Yes, I was harping on him. Once it became clear that Pleonast and Zuma were bad choices for an alternate target, some of the other suggestions were JSexton and Autolycus, and Aguecheek. I was prepared to do the whole “Queuing if scum, JSexton if not”, but it never gained steam. The whole point of the vote is to try to make my kill tonight have as many of the benefits of the lynching as possible. The bottom line is, as long as I claim who I’m killing beforehand, and I have a good amount of agreement that it’s a reasonable target, then I should be allowed to live. That is, I’m still a tool for the town; if the person I kill turns out to be mafia, then I’m either VIG or SK, and if I’m SK, at this point I’m guaranteed to lose because I’ll probably either die at night (if the doctor decides not to protect me and the mafia or VIG takes a chance at me) or get lynched when it’s decided I’m more of a liability than a benefit–I imagine if we dont’ get the GF and/or SK within the next 3-4 game days, then the killing needs to be slowed down to help the town get more information. Either way, if I deviate from the discussed plan or the person I’m supposed to target doesn’t die and doesn’t turn out to be the GF, by all means, lynch me… Hell, I’ll even cast the first vote.. or at least as close to the first one as I can., as I imagine that would be a very short day. Of course, we can always discuss this in more detail tomorrow. But for now, it looks like Plan 2 is my course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1574 "2007-04-04T05:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Yeah this needs to be cut and dry.In fact, I think **BM** should not vote at all,but if \*\*Gad \*\* is town **Winston** is done for anyhow.I don’t have the energy to go back and look right now, but who proposed these two plans? [/QUOTE] Why shouldn’t I get a vote? I’m still a contributing town person, just because my claim is not confirmed doesn’t mean I don’t get a say. Hell, even the people next on my list for scum still get a say. It’s whether I deviate from the plan that helps or hurts my cause. And if you’re SO sure I’m the SK, then, by all means, vote against me… it’s your perogative, but suggesting I shouldn’t get to vote just seems… bad form. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1575 "2007-04-04T05:43:57Z")
Well, except that since **Blaster Master** is the one who suggested killing **Winston** , and aggressively promoted it, perhaps he would have killed **Winston** of his own volition. I thought the idea behind this whole convoluted kill-on-demand thing was to make **Blaster** kill who he was told to kill, not who he wanted to kill. I’m not re-reading this tonight to figure it out. Sorry, **Winston** , unless you’re Mafia or the Serial Killer. My head hurts now. I’m going to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1576 "2007-04-04T05:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] **Blaster Master** [/QUOTE] They were what I pulled out from the suggestions. It was clear to me the other potentials, namely **Autolycus** and **JSexton** were controversial ideas, and only one other person seemed interested in another proposal I made that it be **Aguecheek**. I’m stuck with organizing this voting because it’s my role, so please don’t try to act like I’m forcing anyone to do anything. If you have an alternate suggestion, please make it known, and it gets some popularity, we can see if people bite. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1577 "2007-04-04T05:51:22Z")
9 votes for Plan 1: Rysto, JSexton, Blaster Master, Suburban Plankton (?), storyteller0910, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong, Fretful Porpentine, Lakai 9 votes for Plan 2: nesta, glee, Queuing(?), Menocchio, Autolycus, pimaspinner, Pygmy Rugger, ArizonaTeach, MadTheSwine But now my vote taints it either way, whether I vote or not. Is there one more person out there that can vote? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1578 "2007-04-04T05:52:49Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] 9 votes for Plan 1: Rysto, JSexton, Blaster Master, Suburban Plankton (?), storyteller0910, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong, Fretful Porpentine, Lakai 9 votes for Plan 2: nesta, glee, Queuing(?), Menocchio, Autolycus, pimaspinner, Pygmy Rugger, ArizonaTeach, MadTheSwine But now my vote taints it either way, whether I vote or not. Is there one more person out there that can vote? [/QUOTE] I did not cast a vote either way. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1579 "2007-04-04T05:53:10Z")
On second though, I guess it doesn’t matter much who dies because I’m assuming the other one will probably be de facto prime mafia suspect tomorrow morning, right? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1580 "2007-04-04T05:53:18Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Why shouldn’t I get a vote? I’m still a contributing town person, just because my claim is not confirmed doesn’t mean I don’t get a say. Hell, even the people next on my list for scum still get a say. It’s whether I deviate from the plan that helps or hurts my cause. And if you’re SO sure I’m the SK, then, by all means, vote against me… it’s your perogative, but suggesting I shouldn’t get to vote just seems… bad form. [/QUOTE] I never once said that I thought you were SK. I am actually more concerned you are Mafia than the SK,but since no one has counter claimed against you, I guess I am cautiously comfortable with your claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=78) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=80)