# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1581 "2007-04-04T05:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Suburban Plankton] I did not cast a vote either way. [/QUOTE] Apologies, you mentioned in a post you didn’t like the conditional voting, that’s why I had you in there with a question mark. You’re out of the count and that puts it to plan 2. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1582 "2007-04-04T05:58:30Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] I never once said that I thought you were SK. I am actually more concerned you are Mafia than the SK,but since no one has counter claimed against you, I guess I am cautiously comfortable with your claim. [/QUOTE] Being under the impression that mafia can’t kill mafia (I think NAF is still considering that), or at the very least it’s incredibly stupid, if my target tonight ends up being scum, it should be conclusive (or darn good, if mafia can kill mafia) proof that I’m at least not mafia. As long as I kill who the town says and don’t free-lance, I’m bound to hit mafia or the SK sooner or later, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1583 "2007-04-04T06:06:28Z")
[QUOTE=pimaspinner] Either I am really tired, or this is some of the best reasoning I’ve heard so far. I’m not comfortable with a non-conditional VIG kill, but I don’t want to kill Queuing right now. So change me to plan 1, reluctantly. [/QUOTE] I changed to plan 1. Reluctantly. I’m willing to go with another target. How about FlyingCowOfDoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom? 😃 I just wanted to say Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom! In my head it’s with the voice that does introductions at sporting events! ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1584 "2007-04-04T06:06:50Z")
Yeah I’m dropping character now b/c I’m lazy. It seems to me that there’s a major disconnect in what was posted up until 4 hours ago, and since then. Plan 1 totally takes away the initial point of keeping BM honest, in line, AND giving us a great deal of info. Either plan we vote on, BM is so far bound by that choice, but by having him do Plan 1, and killing Winston for either situation, it gives us less info about any larger network. So far Winston has dont little compared to Queing. With that said, I fail to see how Plan 1 proves diddly for anyone. Maybe I’m wrong cuz i’m tired and tipsy. So far a large majority of the people voting for plan 1 are people who are confused and have piped in lately. They vote for plan 1 because it seems simpler. Occam’s razor people. Keep it simple, but no simpler than what is logical. Gosh, now I’m just painting a bulleyes on myself. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1585 "2007-04-04T06:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=pimaspinner] I changed to plan 1. Reluctantly. I’m willing to go with another target. How about FlyingCowOfDoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom? 😃 I just wanted to say Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom! In my head it’s with the voice that does introductions at sporting events! [/QUOTE] ??? You cant change the plan and the target of aforementioned plan. Not to be rude, but are you being obtuse on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1586 "2007-04-04T06:12:19Z")
I’m not changing the plan. I changed my vote for which plan a few post back and BM missed it. The last part was me trying to be funny, it’s 2am here and I should be sleeping, but instead keep hitting F5 to see what the latest news is. That said, I will take my leave now and see how things shake out in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1587 "2007-04-04T06:15:55Z")
Well, it looks like Plan 2 has it anyway, so it seems the discussion is pretty much moot now. Either way, I imagine when we confirm the roles of the lynch and my target, maybe this voting will give us some useful information as well. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1588 "2007-04-04T06:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Being under the impression that mafia can’t kill mafia (I think NAF is still considering that), or at the very least it’s incredibly stupid, if my target tonight ends up being scum, it should be conclusive (or darn good, if mafia can kill mafia) proof that I’m at least not mafia. As long as I kill who the town says and don’t free-lance, I’m bound to hit mafia or the SK sooner or later, right? [/QUOTE] Ok, sounds good. Do we know for sure that mafia can’t kill mafia? NAF1138? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1589 "2007-04-04T06:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=pimaspinner] I’m not changing the plan. I changed my vote for which plan a few post back and BM missed it. The last part was me trying to be funny, it’s 2am here and I should be sleeping, but instead keep hitting F5 to see what the latest news is. That said, I will take my leave now and see how things shake out in the morning. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I missed it, that makes this the new vote count. 9 votes for Plan 1: Rysto, JSexton, Blaster Master, storyteller0910, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong, Fretful Porpentine, Lakai, pimaspinner 8 votes for Plan 2: nesta, glee, Queuing(?), Menocchio, Autolycus, Pygmy Rugger, ArizonaTeach, MadTheSwine But if my vote is going to taint the results, that leaves it tied… then what? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1590 "2007-04-04T06:27:18Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Ok, sounds good. Do we know for sure that mafia can’t kill mafia? NAF1138? [/QUOTE] Even if we assume they can, it’s monumentallly stupid to do so. If I’m mafia, and I’m forced to “prove” myself by convincing the rest of the mafia to always go along with what the town says, that hurts them because 1) at least some of the kills requested by the town will be mafia, which hurts them more than us and 2) they have zero choice at night IF they want to defend me. Bottom line, if I’m lying, I’d have to convince the rest of the mafia to think its a good idea to sacrifice one of them to keep up my hoax for a few more days. Chances are, they’d go along until a mafia is choosing, and then let me get lynched. I hope my reasoning makes sense; it’s getting late, so I can’t be so sure anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1591 "2007-04-04T06:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Sorry, I missed it, that makes this the new vote count. 9 votes for Plan 1: Rysto, JSexton, Blaster Master, storyteller0910, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong, Fretful Porpentine, Lakai, pimaspinner 8 votes for Plan 2: nesta, glee, Queuing(?), Menocchio, Autolycus, Pygmy Rugger, ArizonaTeach, MadTheSwine But if my vote is going to taint the results, that leaves it tied… then what? [/QUOTE] I’z say we’s do the only fair way. Flip a coin and calls it. ([www.random.org](http://www.random.org)?) ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1592 "2007-04-04T06:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Sorry, I missed it, that makes this the new vote count. 9 votes for Plan 1: Rysto, JSexton, Blaster Master, storyteller0910, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong, Fretful Porpentine, Lakai, pimaspinner 8 votes for Plan 2: nesta, glee, Queuing(?), Menocchio, Autolycus, Pygmy Rugger, ArizonaTeach, MadTheSwine But if my vote is going to taint the results, that leaves it tied… then what? [/QUOTE] Ok if its a tie, I think we need to vote on wether **BM’s** vote should count or not. Plan X-Vote doesn’t count Plan Z-Vote does count 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1593 "2007-04-04T06:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] I’z say we’s do the only fair way. Flip a coin and calls it. ([www.random.org](http://www.random.org)?) [/QUOTE] Okay, that’s fair I suppose. Since my ability to vote seems to irk people (which I’m really curious why, but I’ll wait 'til tomorrow to make them justify). If it’s still tied when I go to bed or at 4 EST, I’ll use [random.org](http://random.org) for the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1594 "2007-04-04T06:58:03Z")
Man, when I pushing for some action this is _not_ what I expected. I’ll vote for Plan 2 Blaster. I wont bother to change my lynch vote as the sun’s about to set and we’re pretty set. Bring on the night. ---
**Author:** ![kivvik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/cdc98d/32.png) [@kivvik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kivvik)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1595 "2007-04-04T07:25:00Z")
Some of us don’t post very often because we don’t have the time to with the way this game is going. An hour to read what built up while I was at work (night shift at the moment, so I miss the prime posting time when most people are on), then often another half hour to read what built up while I was reading that! So, we have claims everywhere. **Gadarene** is effectively doomed, regardless of their allegiance. We have supposed control over our very own pet killing machine. And hello Masons! **Winston** is still kinda crazy, although not as much as before I went to work. **Queuing** had defended himself for the most part. **Autolycus** broke character to chime in, a sure sign that everything has gone nuts. That about sums it up to me. As for the plans, I vote plan 2 Let’s give the conditional thing a whirl, yes? I don’t know if my vote will matter or even get there in time for anyone to see it. Lynching in approximately 36 minutes, yes? And then nightfall, and then a day that will either be quite short, or likely put this day to shame. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1596 "2007-04-04T07:27:38Z")
Great Og, this game is rapidly becoming FUBARed. [QUOTE=Queuing] I am also pretty sure that the scum are in this list: **Sturmhauke 10 posts Fretful Porcupine 13 posts StarvingbutStrong 13 posts Smitty 13 posts Hocow 14 posts Kivvik 14 posts AguaCheek 18 posts ArizonaTeach 19 posts** And I urge BM to kill one of them. [/QUOTE] Rubystreak was big on the “lynch lurkers” strategy last game, and she turned out to be a werewolf. I argued then that lynching people merely because they have a low post count is simplistic at best, and a scummy thing to do at worst. The same reasoning applies here, except even more so. It’s not so much that we have low post counts, but that you and several other people talk way too damn much with very little to go on. Remember that this game is barely a week old, and it’s not even the end of the 2nd game day yet. I really don’t have any input on the whole issue of who the Vig should target. I tried to keep track of who was advocating what, but it got too confusing. I do have some voting records though, which I will be posting in a bit after I arrange it in a postable format. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1597 "2007-04-04T07:56:02Z")
Okay, well, looks like it was a moot discussion anyway. With the last two votes, plan 2 will be my course of action tonight. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1598 "2007-04-04T07:59:09Z")
OK, here is my list of who voted for whom. I believe it is up to date and accurate, but you are all free to offer corrections. I was going to include a list of Vig directives, but that was a giant mess so I scrapped it. If multiple votes are listed, unvotes are implied, and the last one on a given day is the one that counts. Also, for simplicity I have replaced all references to chrisk with JSexton. \*\*Aguecheek \*\*- Day 1 votes: sturmhauke - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master, Queuing \*\*ArizonaTeach \*\*- Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Blaster Master, Gadarene \*\*Autolycus \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Menocchio **Blaster Master** - Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: Gadarene \*\*brewha \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master, Queuing, Gadarene **Fern Forest** - Day 1 votes: sturmhauke - Day 2 votes: Gadarene, brewha, Pleonast, Queuing **FlyingCowOfDoom** - Day 1 votes: Autolycus, Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Pygmy Rugger, Queuing, Gadarene **Fretful Porpentine** - Day 1 votes: Queuing - Day 2 votes: FlyingCowOfDoom, Pleonast, unvote \*\*Gadarene \*\*- Day 1 votes: Autolycus, Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master, Pleonast, Blaster Master, Pleonast, Queuing \*\*glee \*\*- Day 1 votes: Autolycus - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Pygmy Rugger, Queuing, Gadarene \*\*hocow \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master \*\*JSexton \*\*(replaced chrisk) - Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Autolycus, Gadarene, Queuing, Gadarene \*\*Kat \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Pleonast, MadTheSwine \*\*Kivvik \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Queuing, unvote \*\*Lakai \*\*- Day 1 votes: Queuing - Day 2 votes: Pleonast, JSexton, Pleonast, Blaster Master \*\*MadTheSwine \*\*- Day 1 votes: JSexton - Day 2 votes: Pleonast, Pygmy Rugger \*\*Malacandra \*\*- Day 1 votes: Autolycus, Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: hocow, Gadarene, Queuing \*\*Menocchio \*\*- Day 1 votes: sturmhauke, Queuing - Day 2 votes: Queuing, Autolycus, Pygmy Rugger, Gadarene \*\*MonkeyMensch \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Aguecheek, brewha, Aguecheek, Queuing \*\*nesta \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Queuing, Gadarene \*\*pimaspinner \*\*- Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master, Pleonast, zuma \*\*Pleonast \*\*- Day 1 votes: Kivvik, Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: Queuing, Gadarene **Pygmy Rugger** - Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Blaster Master, Pleonast, Queuing, Gadarene \*\*Queuing \*\*- Day 1 votes: sturmhauke - Day 2 votes: Blaster Master, Pleonast, zuma, Pleonast, Aguecheek \*\*Rysto \*\*- Day 1 votes: Gadarene - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Gadarene \*\*Smitty \*\*- Day 1 votes: glee - Day 2 votes: Gadarene \*\*StarvingButStrong \*\*- Day 1 votes: none - Day 2 votes: Queuing, Gadarene \*\*Storyteller0910 \*\*- Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: FlyingCowOfDoom, Gadarene **sturmhauke** - Day 1 votes: Aguecheek - Day 2 votes: nesta, Rysto,Gadarene **Suburban Plankton** - Day 1 votes: glee - Day 2 votes: Pleonast, Gadarene **Winston Smith** - Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - Day 2 votes: JSexton, Fern Forest, Blaster Master, Queuing, unvote \*\*zuma \*\*- Day 1 votes: Queuing - Day 2 votes: Queuing, Pygmy Rugger, Queuing, Gadarene dead players: **Captain Carrot** (Mason) – killed Night 1 \*\*CaerieD \*\*(Detective) – Day 1 votes: sturmhauke – killed Night 2 \*\*cowgirl \*\*(Citizen) – Day 1 votes: Enfant Terrible - killed Night 2 \*\*dnooman \*\*(Citizen) – killed Night 1 **One and Only Wanderers** (Citizen) – killed Night 1 **Enfant Terrible** (Citizen) – Day 1 votes: Autolycus – lynched Day 2 ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1599 "2007-04-04T08:01:01Z")
Sun set. Looks like you just made it **sturmhauke**. Cecil be damned, this day ends. I’ll be happy if the night folk take their time with their votes. Give us the day off tomorrow. I’m sure you guys could use it too. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1600 "2007-04-04T08:10:17Z")
Just to reiterate over the Masons situation, one and only one Mason counterclaim would be enough. We then lynch whichever one of the three we like. If the lynch proves the counterclaim correct, we’re picking up two scum for one Mason ('cos the counterclaimer is going to be dying soon either by mistaken lynch or enemy action); if incorrect, it’s still one for one. Although we’d rather not lose more Masons than we can help, the game is town versus scum, not Masons versus scum, and part of being a Mason is a willingness to take one for the team. The exact ins and outs of whom to pick depend on how likely we think that scum will sentence themselves to death by falsely counterclaiming. There is nothing whatever to be gained by multiple counterclaims - no more Masons should endorse the original claimers, nor need they support the counterclaim; it cannot add extra information and only reveals Masons unnecessarily. From the above analysis, anyone who likes can conclude from my lack of a counter claim that either the current claims are good or I am not a Mason (or both). I also reiterate my earlier suspicion of **hocow** while not presently choosing to explain further, and in any case **hocow** is not today’s urgent business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=81)