# Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565 "2007-03-26T16:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1901 "2007-04-07T04:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Why do we’s think **hocow** is the SK again? [/QUOTE] Solely because **Blaster Master** said so. Nothing has lept out at me concerning that. Extremely good point **Queuing**. No proof there at all. Sigh, there are so many factors going on in this game. I also continue to think that the ability for the SK to win with a Mafia majority is almost nil. If we believe that the mafia will act for the betterment of the team then they will not allow themselves to get a majority while the SK is alive. It’s better for them to have 1 or 2 mobsters confess for the lynch and Vig kill then take the majority and lose. And if they’re that close it doesn’t really hurt them. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1902 "2007-04-07T04:22:43Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] UH OH… **auto** is in trrrrrroubllle. [/QUOTE] I is in trouble? I is in trouble? You’z in trouble punk. All this’s game ya stayed silent-like on the major issues, and’s all your stratergy is nothin’ but tripe. I cant’s claim much better, but hey them’s the breaks. You wanna dance? FoS pointed squarely at you pal. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1903 "2007-04-07T04:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=Fern Forest] I also continue to think that the ability for the SK to win with a Mafia majority is almost nil. [/QUOTE] The SK does win if the Mafia gains a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1904 "2007-04-07T04:30:29Z")
**MTS** I believe that was he point, that until the SK is killed the scum don’t want to win. I agree **Fern Forest** , for a bunch of n00b players we certainly stepped in it this time. So please, let us forget about the SK currently? Scum should be the only goal today and tonight. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1905 "2007-04-07T04:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] I is in trouble? I is in trouble? You’z in trouble punk. All this’s game ya stayed silent-like on the major issues, and’s all your stratergy is nothin’ but tripe. I cant’s claim much better, but hey them’s the breaks. You wanna dance? FoS pointed squarely at you pal. [/QUOTE] Hey,don’t kill the messenger…just have a look at post 1834. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1906 "2007-04-07T04:51:25Z")
[QUOTE=Queuing] **MTS** I believe that was he point, that until the SK is killed the scum don’t want to win. I agree **Fern Forest** , for a bunch of n00b players we certainly stepped in it this time. So please, let us forget about the SK currently? Scum should be the only goal today and tonight. [/QUOTE] Guess I misunderstood it…seemed worded funny. SK should be killed ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1907 "2007-04-07T04:56:31Z")
Mad: why are you fishing for a modkill? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1908 "2007-04-07T05:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=JSexton] Mad: why are you fishing for a modkill? [/QUOTE] Fishing? No fishing about it. The rule was broken, but if NAF1138 wants to allow the reason for the edit, thats up to him. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1909 "2007-04-07T05:12:40Z")
That tears it. **MadTheSwine** , fishin’ or no, you seem all too eager to get’s rid of me. I is changin’ my vote, and I hope’s a bandwagon takes off on this one. Lynch MadTheSwine You’z been on some otha bums’ mistrust list too, if anyone else cares to look. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1910 "2007-04-07T05:13:41Z")
Oh, and Unvote Suburban Plankton ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1911 "2007-04-07T05:30:25Z")
To us the SK is scum and we should treat him as such. But the reason I keep bringing it up is that I want to make sure that the SK knows that the only victory possible for him comes from surviving to a town victory. Were the SK to try for a mafia win that I’m sure they could kill a townsperson every night with only a small chance of missing and getting a mafioso. But that is a losing strategy and I want to make sure the SK knows it. It’s in our interest. I’m curious what people think about this. Way back in the early 600s **Blaster Master** said that it was likely that **cowgirl** was the Mafia’s target. The only other people who knew that were the mob and that people would make that assumption would have probably been very surprising to them. I don’t recall much discussion about it beyond one post. **Rysto** seemed very surprised about it in post [650](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415079&postcount=650). I think this may shine very strongly that he’s a townsfolk. Would a mobster thought to have lept on this? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1912 "2007-04-07T05:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=JSexton] > [@sturmhauke](#): > > You think I might be scum because of a strategy disagreement? No, I didn’t say that at all. [/quote] Yeah, OK. I lost track of who was saying what. I thought you were referring to my thoughts on whether we should be directing the Vig or not. > [@](#): > > That’s not true at all. All of the people I called as scum got a full paragraphs with links. There were no links in [this post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8421755#post8421755) There were references to post numbers, but those aren’t the easiest things to use. Were you hoping no one would go to the trouble of finding the posts? Here is the relevant portion: > [@](#): > > **Blaster Master**. Serial Killer. He’s posting some neat analysis, because he wants to be perceived as useful. It’s also in his interest to catch scum. Trouble is, he got a little over eager and lied, and also made it clear that he’s got a killing role (317). That leaves one role, SK. I think he’s the best lynch today, in order to cut down on the number of deaths each night. > > **Pleonast** : Scum. This surprises no one, of course. His bandwagonning makes his role pretty clear. Posts 391 and 461 are especially telling. > > **Queueing** : Scum. His fishing for experienced players (268) and his misrepresentation of chrisk’s hypothetical cop claiming were pretty scummy. The best, though was post 581. A great big link-filled post analyzing CaerieD’s posts for breadcrumbs. Two problems: One: he got the conclusion wrong; Menocchio was clearly the crumb. Two, check the timestamps. That post was made thirty minutes after the dayscene went up. No way he read it, did that research, and came to his conclusion in that time. Not bloody likely. No, he and the rest of the mafia figured she was the cop, and planned this gambit. He may have even had that post ready to go. > > **glee** : Scum, probably. Posts 267, 363 raise my hackles, so to speak. And I love post 884. What, scared of me? You want to lynch me before I get a chance to talk? How very townie of you. > > **Aguecheek** : Scum, I think. Posts 393 stood out. Also, he’s been going after some perceived “easy” mislynches, like sturmhawke and Autolycus. > > **Gadarene** : Potentially scum.I don’t like the attack on StarvingBut Strong in post 456. Unforced vanilla claim. OTOH, I agree with several of your targets, and post 822 is fairly townie. > > **Brewha** : leaning scum. I don’t like his unforced claim in post 719. Bit too defensive. Other than the sections on Blaster Master and Queuing, I wouldn’t say this was particularly in-depth analysis. And let’s have a look at your most notable misread, namely Pleonast. Here is [post #391](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8407721#post8407721), and here is [post #461](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8408687#post8408687). You cite Pleonast’s “bandwaggoning”, but I don’t see it at all in #391, and only peripherally in #461. That is not actually the post in which he voted for Enfant Terrible, if that’s the bandwagon you’re referring to. Nor did he vote for anyone else in that post, although he did cast aspersions on Autolycus and Queuing. Note that you and Pleonast were both suspicious of Queuing. Also note that Gadarene was on the Enfant Terrible bandwagon, but you didn’t mention that, and it also turned out that Gadarene was just a Citizen - another misread. > [@](#): > > “Vaunted”? Have I claimed to be a great master at this game? I’m experienced, yes. No, you haven’t, but you are probably more experienced than anyone else playing. Some people seem to be in awe of you, I was just riffing on that. > [@](#): > > Also, the main reason I didn’t sign up for the initial game is that my wife had a baby 3 weeks ago. Congratulations! Too bad your kid’s dad is mafia, though. Vote JSexton. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1913 "2007-04-07T09:19:14Z")
Post 1772: > [@pimaspinner](#): > > Glee - scum No evidence given. Why do you think this? Post 1843: > [@Fretful Porcupine](#): > > glee proposes another set of conditionals: lynch Queuing, kill Gadarene if scum, Autolycus if not. Blaster Master does not want to kill Autolycus because he says it won’t give any information. glee asks BM to propose his own alternative target. > … > It seems to me that BM is playing an absolutely brilliant Richard III to glee’s Buckingham AT the time, Queueing and Gadarene were intensely suspicious of Pleonast and Blaster Master (who I both trusted). Autolycus has posted a load of drivel, so even if he was Town, I flet he was a safe target. I then accepted Blaster Master’s logic that we could do better. Post 1844: > [@Fretful Porcupine](#): > > I propose that we should either lynch JSexton and order BlasterMaster to kill glee or kivvik if JSexton turns out to be scum JSexton thought I was Mafia in one of his first posts (based purely on my dislike of random voting :rolleyes: ). He repeats it here: Post 1849: > [@JSexton](#): > > glee could well be scum, though. If he is indeed scum, why would I be? Post 1854: > [@Fretful Porcupine](#): > > Vote kivvik. > Assassinate glee if kivvik is scum. What ‘connection’ have you got between me and Kivvik?! Post 1865: > [@Fretful Porcupine](#): > > glee, who never voted for WS at all, is probably the one I’m most convinced is in cahoots with Blaster Master. The posts where he invites BM to name his own target, BM makes a show of refusing, and eventually does just that, strike me as extremely suspicious I didn’t vote for Enfant Terrible either. I trusted Pleonast even when the heat was on him. As I said above, I suggested Autolycus. Blaster Master said that would be a waste, so I asked for his opinion. Presumably you agree Blaster Master is the Vig (a Townie) - why would a Mafia be ‘in cahoots’ with him? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1914 "2007-04-07T09:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] [1817](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435445&postcount=1817) \*\* MALACANDRA\*\*! First and last warning to the whole group. Use the edit feature, you \*will \* get mod killed. This was one. Next time ANYONE uses the edit feature they are out. [/QUOTE] So presumably there goes Autolycus? If so, do we learn his status? (In case I sound unsympathetic, Autolycus irritated several of us with loads content-free, then posted analysis at night. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) Mafia-speak posts ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1915 "2007-04-07T09:26:19Z")
Resisting the temptation to edit :eek: , that last should have read: ‘(In case I sound unsympathetic, Autolycus irritated several of us with loads of content-free Mafia-speak posts, then posted analysis at night. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )’ ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1916 "2007-04-07T10:07:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fern Forest] \ **If we believe that the mafia will act for the betterment of the team** then they will not allow themselves to get a majority while the SK is alive. It’s better for them to have 1 or 2 mobsters confess for the lynch and Vig kill then take the majority and lose. And if they’re that close it doesn’t really hurt them. [/QUOTE] Huh? Oh, and on an unrelated note, Unvote pima. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1917 "2007-04-07T12:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=JSexton] I’m not sure what you want from me here. I disagree with the positions he took. I thought he was looking scummy for them before I took over his role. Beyond that, how can I possibly defend positions I didn’t take and don’t agree with? [/QUOTE] Fair or not, you are the one held accountable for chrisk’s actions. At least offer up some reasoning for what he did. Rysto is better than I am at this game (this is my first ever, and this may be another mistake, but still…), but he laid it out and for now I am trusting him. If I were taking chrisk’s role, I could think up a couple semi-decent reasons why he would: a. Propose the cop-outing plan despite pointing to the obvious flaws in the werewolf observation thread b. vote against the 12-hour countdown. Suspicious in itself, yet his defense made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1918 "2007-04-07T14:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] _sigh_ Should have previewed. Vote hocow. As somebody already pointed out, if **hocow** is the SK, lynching her prevents another killer. Assassinate JSexton. His faulty analysis of **Blaster Master** is too much to get over. Oh, and I am definitely not happy that **storyteller** was the one who FoS’ed **pimaspinner** , but has yet to vote for him. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I wouldn’t read much into this except that I am not so bright. As my post hopefully made clear, my intention at the time was to Unvote FCoD Vote pimaspinner Though, honestly, I’d be equally happy voting for either, as I believe they are both scum. In the meanwhile, what did you think of the rest of my arguments as regards **pima** in my very long post yesterday? I agree that penalizing people for one ill-thought statement would be a big mistake, which is why _after_ I noticed the apparent contradiction and _before_ As for **Enfant Terrible** , as I made absolutely clear in my initial post that I had pointed out my suspicion of him in the hopes of getting a response. I didn’t want to cast a vote without giving him a chance to answer for himself. You will note that immediately following his response, which I found to be unsatisfactory, I voted. Other quick hit thoughts: **zuma,** it makes no sense to hold **JSexton** to **chrisk’s** actions; he cannot possibly know what **chrisk** was thinking. [OUT OF GAME TALK] Folks, I’m probably not going to be posting much in the next few days. I have any number of absolutely thrilling family commitments today and tomorrow, and my computer access will be limited. I’ll probably have time to make one post in the morning on Sunday and another early on Monday, and I’ll do my best to keep abreast of everything in the meanwhile. I apologize. [/OUT OF GAME TALK] ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1919 "2007-04-07T14:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > In the meanwhile, what did you think of the rest of my arguments as regards **pima** in my very long post yesterday? I agree that penalizing people for one ill-thought statement would be a big mistake, which is why _after_ I noticed the apparent contradiction and _before_ See what I mean about not being bright? To finish this sentence: …_after_ I noticed the apparent contradiction and _before_ I voted for **pima,** I went back and checked her record, and found any number of other things that struck me as odd. Add them together, and there seems like there’s a pattern there. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565/1920 "2007-04-07T14:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] **zuma,** it makes no sense to hold **JSexton** to **chrisk’s** actions; he cannot possibly know what **chrisk** was thinking. [/QUOTE] 😕??? **Jsexton/chrisk** are one and the same. **Jsex** _is_ accountable for the **ck** posts…and… I think he has a very good idea what **chrisk** was thinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game-part-2-this-time-with-mafia/397565.md?page=97)