# Werewolf - a game. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 5, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997 "2007-02-05T23:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/761 "2007-03-01T04:41:03Z")
I am suspicious of **Winston Smith** because he was posted an awful lot without saying much. Seems like maybe a ploy to duck the anti-lurker brigade without drawing any attention. He could be lying low because he is the GA or the seer. But I think it would be bad seer strategy to not have put down any bread crumbs to follow. I am also suspicious of **CometotheDarkSide**. An initial defense of Menocchio (the only one I believe), and then very defensive play thereafter raises my eyebrow. Like so: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/762 "2007-03-01T04:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] How so? I can always be lynched if people don’t like my voting policies. [/QUOTE] If the votes were blind so that you didn’t know who you were voting for just that they had done X, it would be one thing. But since you can say that you’re following a formula when it’s convenient for you to say so, and then break with the formula when it’s convenient for you to do so, the formula itself becomes a shield. Since the game lies in watching how and why others vote, masking your impressions behind the presumed objectivity of a formula interferes with other people reading you. In fact, it’s something that a person could make a point of doing in order not to reveal a distinctive pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/763 "2007-03-01T04:54:20Z")
No, I think I understand what you’re saying, **Rubystreak**. It’s not so much that you’re saying “Players Y and Z are probably werewolves because they doesn’t post” but rather “Players Y and Z have not posted enough information to convince me they’re not werewolves.” I don’t necessarily agree that it’s the best voting strategy, but I think I understand what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/764 "2007-03-01T05:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] If the votes were blind so that you didn’t know who you were voting for just that they had done X, it would be one thing. But since you can say that you’re following a formula when it’s convenient for you to say so, and then break with the formula when it’s convenient for you to do so, the formula itself becomes a shield. [/quote] So what you’re suggesting is, from now on, right up until the second before \*\*Revenant Threshold \*\* calls for a final count, I should change my vote to reflect the lowest post count player? That would somehow be less suspicious and more justified in your mind? I called out **Miller** for not posting. Guess what? Once I did that, he started posting, and several people said they felt more confident afterwards about his non-werewolf status, which was beneficial both to him and the town if he’s one of us. He’s still in the bottom 3, but hey, pointing the old FOS at him sure got him to say stuff. I’d say that was pretty effective on my part in getting the game to go better, in acquiring info for the town. Want me to stop? If so, why? > [@](#): > > Since the game lies in watching how and why others vote, masking your impressions behind the presumed objectivity of a formula interferes with other people reading you. In fact, it’s something that a person could make a point of doing in order not to reveal a distinctive pattern. What about you, with no rhyme or reason to your tons of random-ass votes and posts? Let’s argue the opposite side of the coin: are _you_ trying to hide something behind a barrage of noise and nonsense? I mean, if you’re not interested in flushing out werewolves (and how better to do so than to GET THEM TO TALK by threatening to lynch them if they don’t?), or voting meaningfully based on something concrete and demonstrable, then what is the point of all your posts? I feel like I’m trying, with the limited means at my disposal, to draw people out who might be dangerous to us. This is a problem for you, eh? Go back to talking about raisins. That’s helpful. Riiiight. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/765 "2007-03-01T05:13:28Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] No, I think I understand what you’re saying, **Rubystreak**. It’s not so much that you’re saying “Players Y and Z are probably werewolves because they doesn’t post” but rather “Players Y and Z have not posted enough information to convince me they’re not werewolves.” I don’t necessarily agree that it’s the best voting strategy, but I think I understand what you mean. [/QUOTE] Or, hey, what Kat said. Thanks, yes, that’s what I’m saying. Lack of information is dangerous. I’m trying to combat that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/766 "2007-03-01T05:23:19Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Go back to talking about raisins. That’s helpful. Riiiight. [/QUOTE] You know, you have been pretty unpleasant a number of times in this thread. All I can say is I will refrain from attempting to explain my viewpoint to you since you are taking it personally and being fairly snotty. So, I will go back to talking about raisins and having fun. Because that’s what playing a game is supposed to be about. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/767 "2007-03-01T05:27:38Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] It’s about as far south of the Mason-Dixon line as it’s possible to get, both geographically and culturally. 🙂 Why? [/QUOTE] He thought we were playing wherewolf. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/768 "2007-03-01T05:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] You know, you have been pretty unpleasant a number of times in this thread. All I can say is I will refrain from attempting to explain my viewpoint to you since you are taking it personally and being fairly snotty. [/quote] No, dear, I’m playing the game. You questioned my voting strategy, and I defended it and questioned yours. This exchange is how we decide to lynch someone, so it should be played out fairly seriously, right? Where’s the problem? I mean, it’s Werewolf. It’s a game where we pretend to lynch people, and werewolves rip people’s throats out. I don’t know why YOU are taking any of it personally, actually. This is roleplay for me. I’m taking it as seriously as I’d take any roleplaying game. It’s not about you as jsgoddess, it’s about you as a player in a game where soon, we have to decide to murder someone. I’m pretending to take it seriously. Aren’t you? No? Please relax. > [@](#): > > So, I will go back to talking about raisins and having fun. Because that’s what playing a game is supposed to be about. I thought it was about winning. I’m trying to do that. Talking about raisins doesn’t really contribute much, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/769 "2007-03-01T05:56:22Z")
**jsgoddess** , if that last post of mine was snotty, my apologies. I really am just playing the game, or trying to, and was quite taken aback when you took it personally, as if my attacks on your voting style were actual attacks on you as a person. I really do not want to derail this thread. This is all roleplay for me, I promise. I hope we can just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/770 "2007-03-01T09:25:40Z")
I’ve been rereading the thread. I still don’t feel like there’s a lot of solid information. Wanderers is in all probability a Mason. Anyone he pushes hard on won’t be a Mason, at least, unless he’s dumb. (You’re not dumb, are you?) Captain Carrot seems to have a propensity for jumping on bandwagons without really giving a lot of details why. The wagons that stand out in my mind are Menocchio, JSexton, and moonstarssun, all of whom are now dead. Rubystreak posts plenty, but also seems to carefully word her posts so that they appear to have tactical content but actually don’t. She often calls people out based on their post counts only, rather than what they may or may not have said. Winston Smith, on the other hand, doesn’t even have the appearance of tactical content, just a lot of joking around. jsgoddess’ spat with Rubystreak may be caused by legitimate beefs, but it’s also possible that it’s staged for our benefit so that they don’t appear to be working together. I don’t have much of a read on anyone else yet. However, it does appear that Rysto and JSexton were both eaten because of their analysis skills. I may be making myself a target here, and yet the analyzing must continue. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/771 "2007-03-01T10:06:53Z")
I’m gonna come in with a nice early vote for sturmhauke. This vote is beacuse I don’t like his lack of a voting record. Voting records are one of our key information sources. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/772 "2007-03-01T10:22:06Z")
This after I tell you what’s on my mind? Some people vote first and talk later. I talk first and vote later. Maybe it’s harder to generate statistics on me, but I certainly have been telling you which way I’m leaning. I voted for Menocchio because I was reasonably sure he was a werewolf. Yeah, I was the last one to vote for him, and I realize that might look a little suspicious. You’ll recall I said as much several pages ago. I did not vote for anyone yesterday because I was not reasonably sure about anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/773 "2007-03-01T11:12:59Z")
As much as it’s a good sign of fun encroaching paranoia, things seem to be getting a little hostile. Calm down, people. It is just a game, after all. Now, kiss and make up. What? Video camera? No, I don’t intend to blackmail anyone. Whatever makes you think that? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hocow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hocow/32/4112_2.png) [@hocow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocow)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/774 "2007-03-01T18:53:03Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] I voted for Menocchio because I was reasonably sure he was a werewolf. [/QUOTE] Can you tell us how you were sure he was a werewolf? When you voted for him you said it was for jumping on the **jsgoddess** bandwagon and because he had the most votes. That in itself is bandwagon jumping isn’t it? Unless I missed a post explaining it better, I apologize. But can you clarify this, please? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/775 "2007-03-01T19:05:00Z")
At this point, I’m holding onto my vote for **Rubstreak**. I still don’t buy her stated reasoning behind her votes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/776 "2007-03-01T19:11:06Z")
1. Richard Parker 2. [del]Menocchio[/del]–lynched 3. Rubystreak 4. Ogre 5. Miller 6. Enginerd 7. jsgoddess 8. hocow 9. Kat 10. [del]Rysto[/del]–lunched 11. sturmhauke 12. [del]JSexton[/del]–lunched 13. Suburban Plankton 14. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 15. MadTheSwine 16. One And Only Wanderers 17. Unfinished Symphony 18. Winston Smith 19. dnooman 20. [del]moonstarssun[/del]–lynched 21. Captain Carrot I always manage to hit post too soon. Anyway, in looking over this list, I don’t have much of an opinion about over half of the players. That worries me. I don’t know what to do about it other than continue to vote where I do have something of an opinion, but should so many people be such ciphers at this point? Only the shadow knows. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/777 "2007-03-01T19:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] At this point, I’m holding onto my vote for **Rubstreak**. I still don’t buy her stated reasoning behind her votes. [/QUOTE] You’re awfully defensive, Miller. Still pissed that I called you out, eh? I think I did you a favor, actually. I think my reasons for voting are among the best articulated reasons anyone has given yet; I’ve been quite straightforward, if not as consistent as you’d like, since I don’t want to change my vote 10 times in the last day to reflect lowest post count. I’m interested to hear what you think would be better reasons, and what yours are, if you claim they’re more legitimate. Honestly, I think even the reasons given for lynching Menocchio were thin and just as easily could have been wrong. He jumped on the jsgoddess bandwagon-- but others jumped on the Menocchio bandwagon and were right to do so. He voted third in that vote, but someone has to vote third, and that someone won’t always be a werewolf. Pure luck that he was Alpha Wolf and not just some random villager. We don’t have a lot to go on. Lurking should be viewed with suspicion at this point, which is what I’m doing, and which draws people out so we can know them better. I’d be happy to have a better reason to lynch someone, if we could generate one. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/778 "2007-03-01T19:44:25Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] You’re awfully defensive, Miller. Still pissed that I called you out, eh? I think I did you a favor, actually. [/quote] Once again, I’m not voting for you out of “revenge.” At some point on both days so far, I’ve been in the lead in the neck-streching polls. A lot of people have voted for me. Why would I pick on you, out of all the people who have called me a werewolf? > [@](#): > > I think my reasons for voting are among the best articulated reasons anyone has given yet; I’ve been quite straightforward, if not as consistent as you’d like, since I don’t want to change my vote 10 times in the last day to reflect lowest post count. I’m interested to hear what you think would be better reasons, and what yours are, if you claim they’re more legitimate. Best articulated is not the same thing as best considered. Voting for people who have the lowest post count to the thread is a valid way of getting them to participate more, but it’s not a valid way of determining who’s a werewolf. And since you “don’t want to change your vote 10 time a day,” you’re not even being effective at prompting more participation. Here’s what _I_ think you’re doing. You’re picking on people with low post counts in the hope that they won’t bother to post to defend themselves, and you and your fuzzy buddies get to rack up a bonus daylight kill when we lynch the wrong person. You’re not switching your vote partly to keep focus on an innocent villager (making it more likely he’ll be hung) and partly because some of the lurkers are your fellow wolves, and you’re helping to keep them off everyone’s radar. > [@](#): > > We don’t have a lot to go on. Lurking should be viewed with suspicion at this point, which is what I’m doing, and which draws people out so we can know them better. I’d be happy to have a better reason to lynch someone, if we could generate one. Anyone? Yeah, I’d say blanket strategies like, “Vote for whoever has the lowest post count to the thread, except when you don’t feel like it,” aren’t particularly useful, unless you’re a wolf. Actually analyzing what individual posters have said, and how they’ve voted, is much more likely to net us a lychanthrope. And seeing as this thread is, what, fifteen pages long? Yeah, I’d say we have plenty to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/779 "2007-03-01T21:08:00Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Once again, I’m not voting for you out of “revenge.” At some point on both days so far, I’ve been in the lead in the neck-streching polls. A lot of people have voted for me. Why would I pick on you, out of all the people who have called me a werewolf? [/quote] Because I started it. I called you out as a low post count player. I think that is suspicious behavior. Of course, once I did that, you started posting. That was to everyone’s benefit. > [@](#): > > Best articulated is not the same thing as best considered. Voting for people who have the lowest post count to the thread is a valid way of getting them to participate more, but it’s not a valid way of determining who’s a werewolf. Getting them to participate IS a valid way of finding out if they’re a werewolf. How do you get people to participate without a threat of lynching? If someone doesn’t want to post because he is hiding something, you have to make it more risky for him to be quiet, right? > [@](#): > > And since you “don’t want to change your vote 10 time a day,” you’re not even being effective at prompting more participation. Worked on you though, didn’t it? > [@](#): > > Here’s what _I_ think you’re doing. You’re picking on people with low post counts in the hope that they won’t bother to post to defend themselves, and you and your fuzzy buddies get to rack up a bonus daylight kill when we lynch the wrong person. Totally and completely way off base. I want people to post, to defend themselves, to reveal themselves. > [@](#): > > You’re not switching your vote partly to keep focus on an innocent villager (making it more likely he’ll be hung) and partly because some of the lurkers are your fellow wolves, and you’re helping to keep them off everyone’s radar. Huh? Do I have the power to “keep people off the radar”? I haven’t failed to mention any of the lowest post count players except unfinished symphony, who RT said was having real life issues, which explains the lack of comment. When I called you out, you were the lowest. Your appearance and comments were suspicious. I didn’t change my vote. I will be rethinking my strategy, though, if you really think that the other lurkers are innocent villagers. I’m not sure how you know this, though. Any insight? > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’d say blanket strategies like, “Vote for whoever has the lowest post count to the thread, except when you don’t feel like it,” aren’t particularly useful, unless you’re a wolf. They are if the lowest thread count poster then starts posting and behaves suspiciously, as I think you did. That affirms my strategy… unless you’re not a werewolf, which I don’t know about either way. I really don’t know WHO to vote for at this point. I honestly think it’s a lot about lucky guesses. I won’t be making any for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997/780 "2007-03-01T21:22:22Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Because I started it. I called you out as a low post count player. I think that is suspicious behavior. Of course, once I did that, you started posting. That was to everyone’s benefit. [/quote] Don’t throw your shoulder out patting yourself on your back, there. I didn’t start posting because of anything you said. I started posting because I had something to contribute. > [@](#): > > Getting them to participate IS a valid way of finding out if they’re a werewolf. How do you get people to participate without a threat of lynching? If someone doesn’t want to post because he is hiding something, you have to make it more risky for him to be quiet, right? You’re contradicting yourself. You say you’ve been voting for the person with the lowest post count (which, once again, you haven’t actually been doing) because you don’t have any other criteria to decide who to vote for. So what good does getting the lurkers to post more do you? If you can’t tell who is a werewolf based on what the active posters have already said, what good does getting lurkers to participate do you? Note that I’m not saying there’s no good served by getting lurkers to participate as an absolute. It certainly helps people who think they can discern guilt or innocence by examining what people are actuall saying. But you claim that you can’t do that, that it’s all a guessing game. So how does getting lurkers to post more help _you_ figure out who is a werewolf? > [@](#): > > Worked on you though, didn’t it? No, not particularly. I posted a couple times to make it clear that I hadn’t abondoned the game, but I started participating materially in the game once I had something material to say. > [@](#): > > Totally and completely way off base. I want people to post, to defend themselves, to reveal themselves. Just what I’d expect a werewolf to say! > [@](#): > > Huh? Do I have the power to “keep people off the radar”? I haven’t failed to mention any of the lowest post count players except unfinished symphony, who RT said was having real life issues, which explains the lack of comment. When I called you out, you were the lowest. Your appearance and comments were suspicious. I didn’t change my vote. Were they? First I’ve heard about it. Up 'til now, you’ve been saying you voted for me just because I was the lurkiest of the lurkers. Now that I’ve revealing your strategy for the tissue of lies that it clearly is, you’re changing your story. > [@](#): > > I will be rethinking my strategy, though, if you really think that the other lurkers are innocent villagers. I’m not sure how you know this, though. Any insight? Personal experience. I’m an innocent villager who was also a lurker. > [@](#): > > They are if the lowest thread count poster then starts posting and behaves suspiciously, as I think you did. That affirms my strategy… unless you’re not a werewolf, which I don’t know about either way. I have only one thing to say to this: _\_ Fetch! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-a-game/390997.md?page=40)