# Werewolf (Mafia)--The Split \[Signups--In progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692 "2009-02-13T15:44:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/101 "2009-02-16T23:35:18Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Testerising tells us nothing by itself. I agree that we should test and lynch the same person today. But we don’t get the Testerizer until Wednesday, so we can’t testerize tonight. Can someone more experience tell me what the heck happens when we lynch someone? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/102 "2009-02-16T23:45:11Z")
As I understand it, we use the Testerizer on Wednesday, halfway through the game Day. (In Mafia, it is helpful to capitalize Day when referring to game time; for example, toDay ends on Friday.) ToDay’s lynch happens on Friday. When someone gets lynched, they are dead. (Barring special powers, which I doubt will happen in this game.) We then find out all the information about that player – which side they were on, and any special role they may have had. For example, if we lynch Demo, then Demo is dead and out of the game. We then find out if Demo was a townsperson or a werewolf; if a townsperson, we find out if Demo was a Farmer or a Rancher. Normally, a player wins if their side wins, whether or not the player is still Alive. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/103 "2009-02-16T23:46:49Z")
Sorry for the double post, but I had forgotten what I was originally going to say: Munchkin Mafia is already discussing a situation that may call for a random selection. I suggest we agree ahead of time on how to handle random numbers, and I suggest using the Dice server at [nomic.net](http://nomic.net) – it is an email based system to roll n-sided dice. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/104 "2009-02-16T23:49:43Z")
It makes sense to assume that the person to go into the testeriser in these early days be the eventual lynch target (as **Zeriel** said). Once we have ‘cracked the code’ for the testeriser (more or less, as has been mentioned there may be wrinkles not immediately obvious), we can use it as a sort of disembodied detective, rather than have the same target. In other words, later on, it can be used to confirm townies (the really valuable thing about a detective). For now though, we should look more like a lynch-tenderiser. Thus I don’t think it is necessarily the right plan to put an experienced player in it – unless they are acting scummy. Pushing to get the experienced players testerised/lynched Day One strikes me as a bit scummy. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/105 "2009-02-16T23:51:39Z")
NETA (Not Edited to Add): First sentence of last para makes no sense. It should read ‘For now though, we should look _at the testeriser_ more like a lynch-tenderiser.’ ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/106 "2009-02-16T23:52:20Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > For now though, we should look more like a lynch-tenderiser. Thus I don’t think it is necessarily the right plan to put an experienced player in it – unless they are acting scummy. Pushing to get the experienced players testerised/lynched Day One strikes me as a bit scummy. You also have a good point, **Daphne**. Until we have a few days’ worth of posts, though, all we have is random choices. Otherwise, perhaps we should ask for a volunteer to field-test the Testerizer? (I didn’t think so.) ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/107 "2009-02-16T23:52:44Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Sorry for the double post, but I had forgotten what I was originally going to say: > > Munchkin Mafia is already discussing a situation that may call for a random selection. I suggest we agree ahead of time on how to handle random numbers, and I suggest using the Dice server at [nomic.net](http://nomic.net) – it is an email based system to roll n-sided dice. Email-based? How would that work with reporting the order? Would we have to trust the randomiser not to manipulate the results? ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/108 "2009-02-16T23:55:14Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > You also have a good point, **Daphne**. Until we have a few days’ worth of posts, though, all we have is random choices. Otherwise, perhaps we should ask for a volunteer to field-test the Testerizer? (I didn’t think so.) Let us be of good cheer, **Ben** (may I call you **Ben**?) – perhaps we will find something other than random choice by Weds. by which to place a vote. Of course, if anyone would like to volunteer, don’t let me stop you… ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/109 "2009-02-16T23:57:06Z")
and once again, I meant ‘volunteer _for the testeriser_’. Bleurgh. I will now stop posting until I get some food and can make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/110 "2009-02-16T23:58:51Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Email-based? How would that work with reporting the order? Would we have to trust the randomiser not to manipulate the results? I’ve made good use of the dice server before. It will email the results of its roll to a list of people – so that every recipient can see the results. For example, say we want to put the 18 players in a random order. Everybody passes their email address to one person, who sends in the dice roll. (Since I’m the one who has used this particular server, I’m the best choice for the first use.) That person submits a request for 18 rolls, each from 1 to a large number (such as 200), and for the results to be sent back to everybody. The submitter then posts the results, we order the players from lowest to highest, and then do whatever action in that order. Because everybody received the results, any misreporting of the results will be quickly detected. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/111 "2009-02-16T23:59:08Z")
We don’t have to tightly couple lynches with tests, neccesarily. It’s just that until we figure out the testerizer we need dead tested players. We don’t need to kill every person we test, but if we lynch people that haven’t been tested we learn less than if we lynch people who have been tested. One interesting effect is that early on the people we test will less likely to be scum-killed, since the werewolves want to prevent us from figuring out the testerizer for as long as possible. So there are two phases here. Before we understand the testerizer, tested people are pretty much safe from the wolves but vulnerable to the town. After we understand the testerizr, tested people are safe from the town (unless they test wolf), but are much more likely to be killed by the wolves. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/112 "2009-02-17T00:03:03Z")
Got my PM - thanks. It’s hard to know what to write without raising suspicion. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t! So I’ll just… stop there. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/113 "2009-02-17T00:17:48Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > You also have a good point, **Daphne**. Until we have a few days’ worth of posts, though, all we have is random choices. Otherwise, perhaps we should ask for a volunteer to field-test the Testerizer? (I didn’t think so.) I’ll go first, if people want. The goal is to have your team win, even if you yourself are dead. Given that: 1.)The townspeople benefit from clear knowledge of the tensterizer. 2.) were a werewolf to volunteer they would guarantee their eventual death. It follows that: Any volunteer is likely a townsperson, thus their results indicate (one of the) townsperson’s colors. Only complication is that the machine differentiates between the various kinds of townpeople, making life potentially complicated. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/114 "2009-02-17T00:46:47Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > OK, I think it’s fair to assume that the two color output from the test either represents “race” and “alignment” somehow - one color for each - or that it represents race alone. Right? In either case, the question is why two colors. If it’s the former, and for instance testing a farmer will result in color A for “Town” and then color B for “farmer,” then what does the second color signify for a werewolf? Are there two kinds of those, too? > > If it’s the latter, then we have to decide how and why it uses two colors to indicate a single variable. It seems like it’s going to take a while to get any meaningful data out of the tests anyway, unless we get lucky and nail one of each of the three major factions and get three very distinct results (like blue-blue, then red-red, then green-green, or something). It also seems to me that it doesn’t matter at all who we test first, except in that they’ll have to die eventually. The information that we get immediately from the test + lynch combination won’t manifest until the next time around, right? So it isn’t necessarily the case that “mistesting” because we have to decide early will cost us anything in the long run. > > All of which, in addition to what some others have said already, means we probably ought to be very careful about making decisions based on the test results anytime soon. The test is probably more useful as another vector for weeding out an individual’s motivations than it is as proof of anything in the short term. My initial thought was the two color scheme was: Color 1: Rancher/Farmer/Wolf Color 2: Power Role (or a specific color for “no power role”) That’s why I asked if Power Roles were revealed upon death, or just Role. I would hope the testerizer is fairly complex though, otherwise (with some luck) we could know by day 4 with some certainty what is what. We also need to see what Power Roles get revealed - they might be _very_ useful in testerizer testing. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/115 "2009-02-17T00:47:59Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > As I understand it, we use the Testerizer on Wednesday, halfway through the game Day. (In Mafia, it is helpful to capitalize Day when referring to game time; for example, toDay ends on Friday.) > > ToDay’s lynch happens on Friday. When someone gets lynched, they are dead. (Barring special powers, which I doubt will happen in this game.) We then find out all the information about that player – which side they were on, and any special role they may have had. > > For example, if we lynch Demo, then Demo is dead and out of the game. We then find out if Demo was a townsperson or a werewolf; if a townsperson, we find out if Demo was a Farmer or a Rancher. > > Normally, a player wins if their side wins, whether or not the player is still Alive. This is true, and an important point. Also: 13094ifbmni3n24ix39c ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/116 "2009-02-17T00:52:53Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > This is true, and an important point. > Also: 13094ifbmni3n24ix39c Okay, I have no idea what that last part means, but it not official mod-speak for anything. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/117 "2009-02-17T00:55:08Z")
So, once a person is killed, can they still participate in the thread? (I’m assuming they lose their vote). Or do they become nothing but cheering bystanders? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/118 "2009-02-17T00:57:03Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > I’ll go first, if people want. > > The goal is to have your team win, even if you yourself are dead. Given that: > 1.)The townspeople benefit from clear knowledge of the tensterizer. > 2.) were a werewolf to volunteer they would guarantee their eventual death. > > It follows that: > Any volunteer is likely a townsperson, thus their results indicate (one of the) townsperson’s colors. Only complication is that the machine differentiates between the various kinds of townpeople, making life potentially complicated. ## Note that your reasoning applies only if we immediately lynch everyone we test. If we don’t kill them all, the worst thing we could do would be to make that assumption, because I’m pretty sure it would occur to a werewolf to volunteer just to throw a false positive out there. And if it hadn’t occurred already, it would have by the time he or she read your post. **rexnervous** : I feel like if it’s _too_ much more complicated than that, then there’s a real risk that the game is effectively over by the time we figure anything out. I don’t really have a sense for the length of these games, though, so maybe I’m wrong. On preview: Wait - so that wasn’t any kind of cryptographic key to the Testerizer, and I shouldn’t be trying to figure it out right now? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/119 "2009-02-17T00:58:47Z")
Thanks for the confirmation, O Mighty GM **pedescribe**. It’s good to know that I did remember the important rules correctly. Also, keep in mind that after a few Days pro-Town roles might see it in their interests to share their roles, information, or whatever. As I saw in the Cult game, it tends to be Bad ™ to discuss Town roles in great detail early on. But that depends on the nature of the discussions. (We discussed what our detective and junior detective should do, and in doing so the scum figured out who was the detective. Oops.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692/120 "2009-02-17T01:02:33Z")
Help me with the timing again(I’m new). We get the testerizer Wed., which is halfway through the DAY, right? So if we vote Wed. by 10:00 p.m. EST, when do we get the results? Friday? Then, we vote in the day(small “d”) Friday for execution, right? Naturally, early on the testerizer means nothing other than its potential for future data analysis. It seems volunteering to be tested is wise early(since there is no reason to point any fingers). I also agree with random lynching on DAY ONE, at least. Thanks for volunteering to be tested, **Telcontar**. I think taking volunteers is a pretty good way at first. I’m willing as well, if it’s helpful. Actually, I assume everyone would volunteer because no one here is a werewolf…right? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werewolf-mafia-the-split-signups-in-progress/485692.md?page=7)