# Wesley Clark is soooo busted! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074 "2003-09-27T00:13:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/61 "2003-09-29T21:30:52Z")
To use only one example of your childish weaseling, let’s look at this statement just above: > [@](#): > > * * * > > ## Do you think that Saddam was a moving party in the catastrophe of September 11, 2001? > > I do not. I’m pretty sure that Bush didn’t say he was in that speech you refer to, or any other for that matter. Yet just a couple of weeks ago, you told us [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=207771&perpage=50&pagenumber=3) > [@](#): > > Frankly, I’m glad we’ve taken the fight to where the problem is rather than waiting for it to come to us again. “Again”, you say. Were you referring to some other first time Iraq brought something to us? Or is that another example of your eagerness to swallow whatever the current day’s version of reality from Bush and Rush happens to be, and never acknowledging ever having thought otherwise? Note that you made that claim just before they admitted otherwise. That approach may keep Ashcroft and the Ministry of Truth away from your door, but here it simply makes you look like a silly wanker. As for your puppy-dog-loyal, but silly, claim that Bush did not attribute 9/11 to Saddam, there’s the very letter he sent to Congress asking for the war resolution. No equivocation, no qualifiers, no subjunctives. The very letter. You might toss in every time he’s said the words “terror” or “9/11” in the same breath as “Saddam” or “Iraq”. Nobody still believes that bullshit except the most gullible, which apparently includes you. **Spavined Gelding** and, well, hell, everyone else here: We do seem to be wasting our time on this “good German”. If Rush Limbaugh didn’t say so, it ain’t so, in his cramped little fantasy world. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/62 "2003-09-29T21:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Do you think that Saddam was a moving party in the catastrophe of September 11, 2001? > > I do not. I’m pretty sure that Bush didn’t say he was in that speech you refer to, or any other for that matter. “The al-Qa’eda no longer have an ally in the regime in Iraq.” –George W. Bush, from the deck of the _Abraham Lincoln,_ 3/4/2003 Doesn’t that count? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/63 "2003-09-29T22:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\ ***Spavined Gelding** and, well, hell, everyone else here: We do seem to be wasting our time on this “good German”. If Rush Limbaugh didn’t say so, it ain’t so, in his cramped little fantasy world. \*\* Well, no, I’m not ready to give up yet. I’m use to people who zealously advocate dubious propositions. Also, I’m not willing to accept that at some level we are not all friend here, although there is a level of personal abuse in this and other post that make me question that “liberal” view of these boards. I would like to know just what our friend **Scylla** ’s position is. If it is some sort of generalized idea that it is always reprehensible to criticize a decision to go to war or to question the conduct of the war, while the war is on going, I can accept that, as wrong headed and anti-democratic as it may be. If the position is that people who question the pretext for the war and the objectives of the war are factually wrong then there is something we can talk about. Which is it **Scylla**? Generalized lockstep patriotism or a factual and philosophical dispute? Just come out and tell us. This constant guessing game is growing tedious. In terms of personal abuse, your comment that I am HOPING that the young men and women who were my comrades and who followed me in the units deployed to the Middle East died for a lie is as close to reprehensible as I have seen around here. I am of a generation that gave some fifty-eight thousand to die for a mistake. I resent their deaths and the maiming of thousands and thousands of others. I do not take lightly your representation, rhetorical or not, that I wish the same thing on that generation’s children. For old guys who have lived through this nation’s occasional bouts of irrationality, I think you owe me and all of us a clear statement of your position and argument about the present unpleasantness in Iraq and a clear statement of your apparent position that I and we owe some duty of unquestioning allegiance to the present President and his policies. If you are just waiving the bloody shirt and proclaiming that every dead soldier boy in blue was shot by a Democrat, just come out and say so. that way we will know if there is a fair argument here of just partisan gamesmanship. Sorry about the misspelling on the previous post. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/64 "2003-09-29T22:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I withhold judgement on whether or not this has occured until the facts are in. Would a judicial enquiry which produces Government documentation be helpful to you? Here in the UK, we have the Hutton enquiry. So far we have established that when Blair told Parliament that Saddam was threatening British bases (in Cyprus) with WMD’s (which would be ready at 45 minutes notice) plus was developing a nuclear weapon using African supplies and also there was a risk that Saddam would sell weapons to terrorists, there were in fact one or two points of interest: - Saddam only had battlefield shells, which couldn’t reach Cyprus - there was no evidence Saddam still had effective WMD’s, let alone have them ready in 45 minutes - the evidence of the African nuke was forged - Saddam wouldn’t use any such weapons unless attacked by the US (!) - if Saddam was overthrown, the risk of terrorism would increase I suppose one could assume that if Blair knew all this before the war, that Bush did too. But I expect you’ll want more proof than this? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/65 "2003-09-29T23:28:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Were you referring to some other first time Iraq brought something to us? > \*\* No. As you well know from the context I was referring to the circumstances not the specific player. Stop playing games. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/66 "2003-09-29T23:49:55Z")
**Scylla** Bush et al can continue to claim the same shit about the WMD forever. You see, they’ve already laid out some possabilities about ‘where they are’ (buried in some stretch of the desert, ne’er to be found by anyone but those who buried them, sold to the nearest terrorist, smuggled to the nearest stronghold), as well as the fact that they’ve also lowered the bar quite substantially wrt what they’ll accept as ‘proof’. Remember, of course that the claims were tons of materials for WMD, etc etc etc, instead of tons of papers for WMD programs. And this new wrinkle (“why would they continue to lie about it if they know they’ll get caught”) begs yet another issue - _at what point in time will the true believers give up?_. Last March, the risk was so imminent that several weeks more of weapons inspections was too risky. Invasion **had** to come right then. they were THATCLOSE to using them. except they didn’t. even when we conviently brought US targets right to their doorway. and we still, months later, have nada to demonstrate what we ‘knew’ was true. You stated before that Thanksgiving (about) was your line, that if they didn’t come up with the goods by then, you’d buy that it was at best a wholesale exaggeration, at worst, a fabrication. (or something like that). you seem to be backing off that now with this new line of reasoning. Taking it to the limit - at what point would you cave then? they still don’t find shit by 2005? 2010?? when? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/67 "2003-09-29T23:57:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*I would like to know just what our friend **Scylla** ’s position is. If it is some sort of generalized idea that it is always reprehensible to criticize a decision to go to war or to question the conduct of the war, while the war is on going, I can accept that, as wrong headed and anti-democratic as it may be. If the position is that people who question the pretext for the war and the objectives of the war are factually wrong then there is something we can talk about. Which is it **Scylla**? > Generalized lockstep patriotism or a factual and philosophical dispute? Just come out and tell us. This constant guessing game is growing tedious. \*\* Well gee, thank you for being so magnanimous and offering me an either /or position. Do you still beat your wife, or are you in denial? Which is it? Tell me. I would like to know. Criticism and examination of our government, leaders, and their actions is perfectly appropriate. “Bush is a liar. They were deliberate lies. There are no WMDs. There never were any.” are statements of unfounded stupidity deserving of contempt. “Bush acted hastily on dubious evidence,” is a debatable proposition and arguably a valid criticism. In all cases, not just in government, criticisms and complaints must be well-defined and consistent. I take argument with unfounded knee-jerk assertions. > [@](#): > > In terms of personal abuse, your comment that I am HOPING that the young men and women who were my comrades and who followed me in the units deployed to the Middle East died for a lie is as close to reprehensible as I have seen around here. That’s nice, but I spoke precisely. My first comment was directed at Elvis. My subsequent comment to you was phrased as an if then statement, not a positive assertion. I stand by it. If you hope that our soldiers died for nothing, I have contempt for you. I am not qualifying you with that statement. It’s up to you to qualify yourself. > [@](#): > > I am of a generation that gave some fifty-eight thousand to die for a mistake. I resent their deaths and the maiming of thousands and thousands of others. I do not take lightly your representation, rhetorical or not, that I wish the same thing on that generation’s children. And I resent defending myself from things I didn’t say. Follow the chain of logic: Do you hope that they never find convincing of evidence or WMDs in Iraq? Bear in mind, that if they don’t, if the assertion that they don’t exist and never did and are just a fabrication, is true than those who died for a lie. If you are hoping that nothing is found, than you are hoping for an outcome that will damage us severely as a nation. You are hoping for an outcome that will demonstrate that our soldiers died for nothing. If you hope that, I find it reprehensible. I sincerely hope we acted properly and are vindicated. A simple analogy is in order: You beleive your foolish friend has gotten into a car with an electrical issue that will cause the car to explode. You warn your foolish friend, and he laughs at you and makes fun of you for your stupidity as he drives off. If you sit there and hope the car will explode proving you right, than you’re an asshole. > [@](#): > > For old guys who have lived through this nation’s occasional bouts of irrationality, I think you owe me and all of us a clear statement of your position and argument about the present unpleasantness in Iraq Hopefully, I’ve just done that. > [@](#): > > and a clear statement of your apparent position that I and we owe some duty of unquestioning allegiance to the present President and his policies. Wishing doom to vindicate prior statements is sucky behavior. > [@](#): > > If you are just waiving the bloody shirt and proclaiming that every dead soldier boy in blue was shot by a Democrat, just come out and say so. I’ve said nothing of the kind. > [@](#): > > that way we will know if there is a fair argument here of just partisan gamesmanship. A fair argument would have had you answering the questions I asked you previously and reminded you of. That probably would have saved us both some trouble. > [@](#): > > \*\*Sorry about the misspelling on the previous post. \*\* No problem. I wasn’t sure if it was a misspelling or some attempt at an insult. Glad to hear it was the former. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/68 "2003-09-30T00:05:53Z")
Wring: I’m not switching gears here on the WMD question and the original time frame. I’m pretty eager to see what this report has to say. Before the war, the burden of proof was on Saddam to prove he didn’t have the WMDs since he’d kicked the inspectors out. Because of the depth of the assertions made by Bush the burden of proof is now on Bush to justify his actions with evidence. I’m still sticking with Thanksgiving. I suspect that this coming report will make that moot. If the early indications are to be believed it will show no WMDs have been found, no convincing evidence that they existed, and no compelling reason to beleive they will be. I’d like to see what it says though. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/69 "2003-09-30T02:50:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _Scylla said:_ > A simple analogy is in order: You beleive your foolish friend has gotten into a car with an electrical issue that will cause the car to explode. > > You warn your foolish friend, and he laughs at you and makes fun of you for your stupidity as he drives off. > > If you sit there and hope the car will explode proving you right, than you’re an asshole. > . The problem is that the car’s already exploded. And my foolish friend was ordered by the manufacturer to drive the car. Some people hope the evidence shows the manufacturer was negligent. Analogies. Yes!Yes!. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/70 "2003-09-30T03:07:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Before the war, the burden of proof was on Saddam to prove he didn’t have the WMDs since **he’d kicked the inspectors out**. Was this just a slip, or are you chronically incapable of telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/71 "2003-09-30T03:22:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Was this just a slip, or are you chronically incapable of telling the truth? \*\* Do you still have a drinking problem or are you just lying about it? Cut the crap, Chuckles. Are you telling me that Saddam did not kick the weapons inspectors out back in 1998? I’m pretty sure he did. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/72 "2003-09-30T03:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > [Iraq and the exit of the UN weapons inspectors in December 1998](http://www.irak.be/ned/archief/exit_UN_%20weapons_%20inspectors_1998.htm) > > On 15 December 1998, Richard Butler, the Executive Chairman of UNSCOM, reported to the Security Council that Iraq had failed to grant UNSCOM full and unconditional access to (at least) four sites in Iraq. In anticipation of the airstrikes that the US and UK governments were threatening, Butler ordered weapons inspectors to be withdrawn on the following day, December 16. Airstrikes - “Operation Desert Fox” - immediately followed. > > These events were reported accurately at the time by most major media outlets. For example, Josh Friedman wrote in the New York Times on 17 Dec 1998: > > “While the 133 [UN humanitarian] workers had been left behind, more than 185 others, most of them arms inspectors, had been evacuated yesterday by air to neighboring Bahrain and by car to Jordan … Butler abruptly pulled all of his inspectors out of Iraq shortly after handing Annan a report yesterday afternoon on Baghdad’s continued failure to cooperate with UNSCOM”. > > The chronology on UNSCOM’s own website reports this event: > > 16 Dec 1998: The Special Commission withdraws its staff from Iraq. > > In withdrawing the arms inspectors, Richard Butler acted unilaterally: he did not wait for the Security Council to assess his report and to make any decisions in consequence of it. It was widely reported at the time that Peter Burleigh, US ambassador to the UN, had “advised” Butler to withdraw his staff from Iraq immediately. The events are recounted in more detail in Butler’s book, Saddam Defiant: (2000): > > “I received a telephone call from US Ambassador Peter Burleigh inviting me for a private conversation at the US mission […] Burleigh informed me that on instructions from Washington it would be ‘prudent to take measures to ensure the safety and security of UNSCOM staff presently in Iraq.’ I told him that I would act on his advice and remove my staff from Iraq.” > > Given that the chain of events is so well established, it is surprising that many commentators and politicians have claimed since 1999 that Iraq “expelled” the weapons inspectors in December 1998. This mistake has been made not only by hawks such as President George W. Bush in his State of the Union address (“the axis of evil” speech), Dick Cheney (before he became vice-president), Alexander Rose, the Canadian right-wing Washington correspondent of the National Post, and the editorial writers of the Sunday Times. It has also been repeated by those who have shown concern for the humanitarian situation in Iraq, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, Liberal Democrats foreign affairs spokesperson Menzies Campbell, and the usually superb Guardian Middle East editor Brian Whitaker. The BBC often makes this mistake, and usually acknowledges its error when it is pointed out to them. > > It was hardly unpredictable that the Iraqi regime would refuse after December 1998 to re-admit the arms inspectors who had been withdrawn so that Iraq could be bombed. Ironically, Iraq has been giving the same reason that the US offered in December 2001 for refusing to sign up to a convention that would be effective in prohibiting biological weapons: on-site inspectors are unacceptable because they would spy. > > In the present climate of tension in relations between Iraq and other countries - with widespread speculation that the US will justify military attacks on Iraq in terms of the absence of arms inspectors - a valid account of the events that led to that absence would seem especially important. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/73 "2003-09-30T03:43:55Z")
bullshit. You know for a fact that he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![snac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@snac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snac)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/74 "2003-09-30T03:59:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It’s those making the premature assertions that are gambling. \*\* So you believe that George W. Bush is a gambler and worthy of scorn! Not surprising, I suppose. The man DID make premature assumptions about the presence of WMDs in Iraq. So the description certainly fits. But it’s interesting to see you say so. Thought you was a Bush fan… ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/75 "2003-09-30T04:09:06Z")
**Scylla** , you have twice now said that I have failed to answer your questions. For the life of me I don’t know what questions you have asked me. I suggested that a sign of maturity is accepting it with good grace when you are wrong. To that you demanded to know on what point you were wrong (which sort of confirms my point). I also suggested it is childish to launch a personal attack on people who point it out when your assumptions are mistaken. To that you demanded that I tell you which of your assumptions were mistaken. While I took these as rhetorical questions and that your error had been adequately demonstrated, I took a stab at it in my post of 9:55 on 9/28. Your response was that I had misrepresented your position and generally had taken a big swing but missed. I then tried to give you a chance to clarify your position but you declined to do so with any precision, or at least in a form I could understand as anything but glittering generalities. Now, if you have asked me questions that I have failed to answer or failed to answer to your satisfaction, please repeat the question in a form that I can understand – assume that I am some what simple minded–speak clearly and slowly. Use short words, if you please. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/76 "2003-09-30T11:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > …Fine. You tell the families of the dead that you hope they died for a lie… Is there a “smilie” for puking yer guts out? Words fail. “Reprehensible” is too mild, “vile” as well. I fear, as well, that this is but a preview of the coming election season. Will the Pubbies stoop to anything in order to keep thier grip on the levers of power? Is the bear Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/77 "2003-09-30T13:42:05Z")
**Scylla** , I don’t think I or anyone is hoping that Bush is a liar. A lot of us believe the evidence that he’s a liar is very strong; what we’re hoping is that he’s EXPOSED for a liar. We’re not hoping that the soldiers and the Iraqis died for a lie. We’re hoping that, by exposing Bush as a liar, we can prevent anyone ELSE from dying for the lie. I really wish you’d be a little bit less cavalier with the accusations in this thread. Everyone else should be less cavalier, too, but you’re being pretty over-the-top, by suggesting we’re hoping for our country’s embarrassment and failure. We’re not hoping for that. That’s already happened. We’re hoping for an END to the embarrassment and failure. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/78 "2003-09-30T16:09:07Z")
I see that now **december** is gone the boards are shifting further towards the left. Now, even **Scylla** is a target. _sigh_ Democrat Underground, here we come. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/79 "2003-09-30T16:16:08Z")
Whatever, **Debaser**. Note that **Scylla** is making pretty nasty accusations about people, stating that they’re hoping for their country’s failure and embarrassment, on awful little evidence. Don’t make nasty unfounded accusations about people, and you don’t have to watch them get in a tizzy. It’s pretty simple. (Not that Scylla wasn’t goaded – he was – but that’s no reason to lash back so harshly) Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074/80 "2003-09-30T17:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*I see that now **december** is gone the boards are shifting further towards the left. Now, even **Scylla** is a target. > > _sigh_ > > Democrat Underground, here we come. \*\* Do you want to back that one up, Big Boy, or shall we just leave it hanging in the air like an unacknowledged fart? If there has been a shift to a position critical of the invasion of Iraq and of the occupation and of the so called war on terrorism it is not because the retired actuary from New Jersey is no longer with us, but because a fair number of the people who fervently supported the Administration’s actions have either clamed up or modified their positions. Whether because they have evaluated the available information or because they have been beaten into submission by the evil liberal jugernaught I cannot tell. Even our friend **Scylla** has acknowledged that if solid evidence of WMDs is not uncovered by Turkey Day he will adopt Senator Kennedy’s position that the Administration’s promotion campaign for the war was a fraud. If you have something to ad here, do it. If you are simply going to crouch in the weeds and make noises you might as well keep it to yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-soooo-busted/204074.md?page=5)