# Wesley Clark is your keyboard broken (persnickety) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464 "2005-08-10T16:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/101 "2005-10-03T02:32:12Z")
Clearly, the schizophrenia thing is a lie. **Zoe** may wish to defend **Wesley Clark** , but it’s simply a false statement that you can diagnose your own mental illness (especially as those with schizophrenia are not known to be particularly insightful about their conditions) and more false to claim to have willed it away - schizophrenia simply does not work that way, and **Wesley Clark** is either very confused or simply lying when he claims to have cured himself of it. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/102 "2005-10-03T03:07:25Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > I won’t deny that you probably have something going on upstairs, but it ain’t schizophrenia. Cite? I’ve yet to see solid evidence that **Wesley Clark** has _anything_ going on up stairs. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/103 "2005-10-03T04:24:31Z")
It is very true that people shouldn’t try to diagnose their own mental illnesses. The part of the brain which is making the judgment is often the damaged part. **Guinastasia** , I totally agree with you about not letting misconceptions about schizophrenia go unanswered. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/104 "2005-10-03T13:03:11Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Not that I care anywhere near making a pit thread about it, but **Wesley** , how about trying to use question marks in your thread titles when appropriate? Not a huge deal, but it looks kind of ignorant or uneducated to skip punctuation. Any word on this **Wesley**? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/105 "2005-10-03T13:34:51Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > That hurts. Now I remember one of the reasons why I stay out of the pit. To avoid seeing what are normally nice, intelligent people act like rude children. Hm, so that explains why you went to the trouble of finding a (deservedly) short-lived thread of mine and bumping it, just to call me stupid. Gotcha. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/106 "2005-10-03T13:38:58Z")
I suspect Wesley is having a grand time pulling all our legs. He’s so emptyheaded almost all of the time, but upon rare occassion, he shows flashes of intelligence and wit that absolutely do not belong with his normal fuckwit personality that elicts “OMG did he really say/ask that” reactions. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/107 "2005-10-03T13:49:49Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > I suspect Wesley is having a grand time pulling all our legs. He’s so emptyheaded almost all of the time, but upon rare occassion, he shows flashes of intelligence and wit that absolutely do not belong with his normal fuckwit personality that elicts “OMG did he really say/ask that” reactions. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/108 "2005-10-03T15:43:09Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > You don’t even know my real name and its not Wesley. Yeah, we should just stick to calling you **FuckStain**. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/109 "2005-10-03T16:18:26Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Blow me you [fuck up](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=329972&highlight=life). Uh-uh. Nope. No way. Hells fucking no! Your semen is black and orange. I suggest you get a jack-o-lantern to dot he honors. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/110 "2005-10-03T18:47:24Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Clearly, the schizophrenia thing is a lie. **Zoe** may wish to defend **Wesley Clark** , but it’s simply a false statement that you can diagnose your own mental illness (especially as those with schizophrenia are not known to be particularly insightful about their conditions) and more false to claim to have willed it away - schizophrenia simply does not work that way, and **Wesley Clark** is either very confused or simply lying when he claims to have cured himself of it. It’s untrue that it is not possible to recognize your own mental illness. There are many sources of literature detailing the signs and symptoms of everything from [Anxiety Disorder](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adfacts.cfm) to [OCD](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/NIMHocd.pdf). Any person who is able to - even for a day or so- experience some self awareness could possibly recognize their symptoms and get treatment. Haven’t you ever done one of those checklists for depression? Just giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he was just being overly simplistic about how he “willed” it away. Although it is unlikely without any sort of assistance, perhaps he could be using a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to “treat” himself. Maybe this is what he means by “cured” - now that he recognizes and manages the symptoms he is no longer suffering from the disease. Just a thought. > [@](#): > > From [NIMH Website](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/schizoph.cfm) _Cognitive Behavioral Therapy_. Cognitive behavioral therapy is useful for patients with symptoms that persist even when they take medication.9 The cognitive therapist teaches people with schizophrenia how to test the reality of their thoughts and perceptions, how to “not listen” to their voices, and how to shake off the apathy that often immobilizes them. This treatment appears to be effective in reducing the severity of symptoms and decreasing the risk of relapse. ---
**Author:** ![gommsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@gommsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gommsn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/111 "2005-10-03T20:04:49Z")
**grayhairedmomma** , just to clarify; while there are many illnesses that may be self-diagnosed, Schizophrenia is not one of them. The main symptom of the illness is a break from reality. A significant break, for some. In fact, the patient is the _last_ person to recognize it or even ever accept it. It is a mind altering illness and its greatest weapon is disguising itself from the person. I have never experienced a person walking into a hospital, self-diagnosed as a schizophrenic and demanding treatment. **Wesley** may or may not have had the illness, may or may not have the illness but I do know for a fact, no one cures themselves. THERE IS NO CURE. Excuse me for yelling but this is something that needs to be heard loud and clear. Even patients have trouble with this one. The #1 reason for patient decompensation when out of hospital is non-compliance with medication. “Why do I need meds when I feel so well?” This theme is often translated into " I must be cured". There are many cognitive therapys out there, some better than others but without the medications we now have, my best WAG would be that one-half of the patients on the street at any given time, would double. In the not unlikely event someone feels overwhelmed to yell, Cite! I have none except 35 years as a Psych Nurse . ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/112 "2005-10-03T22:56:34Z")
> [@gommsn](#): > > THERE IS NO CURE. Bullshit. Plenty of people recover from schizophrenia. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/113 "2005-10-03T23:09:01Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Bullshit. Plenty of people recover from schizophrenia. Depends on how you define recovery. But a lot of people do get better, if not completely well. A smaller subset do seem to recover completely, some without any treatment, but most requiring some medication and/or therapy. And about a third of schizophrenics tend to get worse no matter what is done for them. These are the ones who tend to spend a lot of time in psychiatric units. NIMH has some fair data on outcomes, if anybody’s interested. (That’s National Institute of Mental Health) ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/114 "2005-10-03T23:22:38Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Depends on how you define recovery. Can you think of any reasonable and accepted definitions of “recovery” that would make the statement “THERE IS NO CURE” true and the statement “Plenty of people recover from schizophrenia” false? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/115 "2005-10-03T23:45:31Z")
And even depression can be hard to self-diagnose. I have _dysthymic depression_ which is low grade and chronic. I have dealt with it for over forty years. But there are times when another kind of more intense depression sets in. My brain becomes too disfunctional to recognize it for what it is. I just think that my life situation has become too much to bear or everything has become confused “out there” or I feel numb and removed. My mind is just not there fully enough to think, “Oh, it’s depression again.” Fortunately, the combination of medications that I take has kept this from happening for several years. It’s such good sport to stomp on someone who has had a mental illness. Good fun, eh? That way you can pretend it’s a fair fight and make yourself look like tough guys. But maybe that’s not _your_ motives, so don’t take that personally unless it applies to you. **What I notice is the one who is being strong and silent here.** ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/116 "2005-10-03T23:58:38Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **What I notice is the one who is being strong and silent here.** Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/117 "2005-10-04T03:17:09Z")
> [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > It’s untrue that it is not possible to recognize your own mental illness. There are many sources of literature detailing the signs and symptoms of everything from [Anxiety Disorder](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adfacts.cfm) to [OCD](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/NIMHocd.pdf). Any person who is able to - even for a day or so- experience some self awareness could possibly recognize their symptoms and get treatment. Haven’t you ever done one of those checklists for depression? > > Just giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he was just being overly simplistic about how he “willed” it away. Although it is unlikely without any sort of assistance, perhaps he could be using a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to “treat” himself. Maybe this is what he means by “cured” - now that he recognizes and manages the symptoms he is no longer suffering from the disease. Just a thought. Recognizing signs of a mental illness is assuredly not the same thing as “diagnosing” yourself. Diagnosis of mental illness requires professional intervention; **Wesley Clark** is, again, being deceptive - of himself or of us - when he claims otherwise; as a former nursing student, he should at least be aware of simple matters like that. Recognizing that you may have a mental illness is important, but when I recognized that I had signs of ADD, it was not a diagnosis. It took a professional to evaluate my symptoms in order to determine that it was, indeed, ADD. You simply cannot rely on people’s self-insight to the extent of letting them determine their own diagnoses - people cannot evaluate their own behavior objectively enough to do more than recognize signs of a disease. Further, the comparison with anxiety disorder or depression is not apt, as one of schizophrenia’s effects is psychosis - loss of reality testing. The concept of diagnosing yourself with schizophrenia is patently absurd. > [@Zoe](#): > > It’s such good sport to stomp on someone who has had a mental illness. Good fun, eh? That way you can pretend it’s a fair fight and make yourself look like tough guys. > > But maybe that’s not your motives, so don’t take that personally unless it applies to you. Of course it’s not _my_ motive, at least. My motive is irritation at his inane questions and refusal to use question marks, even when many people have pointed out that it’s obnoxious. Perhaps those are results of his ‘mental illness’ - should it be real - but frankly, I don’t care. At this point, I can only assume the question mark thing is a deliberate fuck you to the rest of us; I reserve the right to dislike him for it, even if you think he deserves pity and soft glove treatment because he’s ‘mentally ill’. Anyway, the pit exists in large part so we can take potshots at each other. If he’s a doper, frankly, I think that makes him fair game. If you disagree, you can campaign to make flaming in the pit against the rules. You could even campaign for those with mental illness to be outlawed as pit fodder, if you felt strongly about it. But since **Wesley Clark** ’s ‘mental illness’ is dubious at best, your protestations that we’re beating up on him because he’s an easy target are nonsense. We’re beating up on him because he’s constantly asking inane, idiotic questions. And because he refuses to follow them up with question marks (well, for me at least, that’s a major motive.) Accusing us of beating up on **Wesley** because it’s easy is a childish attempt to redirect the discussion into spurious questioning of the character of those of us who have the temerity to dislike someone whose own behavior has been eminently deserving of it. If you wish to see niceness, I recommend you stay out of the pit. And since when has he been “strong and silent”? He resurrected a month-old thread to whine about how its author doesn’t like him. He hasn’t been remotely “strong and silent” - **Wesley** ’s behavior (from the unnecessary discussion of where he stores his semen, to the refusal to use question marks, to the pathetic attempt to sling insults while pretending that insulting people online is beneath him) has ranged from obnoxiously loquacious - starting new threads for every inane thought that crosses his mine - to childish whining. What he hasn’t once been is “silent”. ---
**Author:** ![gommsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@gommsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gommsn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/118 "2005-10-04T03:30:21Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Bullshit. Plenty of people recover from schizophrenia. Well **Metacom** , it may be that your experience is more extensive than mine and in that case I’ll defer. But I reiterate, in 35 yrs I have never met a schizophreiic that was “cured”. Well controlled, yes. Able to maintain meaningful employment, yes. Dependent on medication, mostly yes. Still schizophrenic, yes. Don’t be mislead by former patients who appear ‘recovered’. They still have the illness and in mild cases, through sheer will power and certain cognitive behavior therapys, are able to suppress their symptoms. But they deal with the illness everyday in whatever manner is effective for them. More serious cases require daily medication and if that medication works for them, you would never pick them out in a crowd. But “cured”? No. If you are going to insist on that standard and call bullshit on my observations, I’m afraid I’m the one who has to say, "Cite!’ ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/119 "2005-10-04T05:09:53Z")
You guys are such fun sometimes. I usually try to avoid pittings and whatnot but felt compelled to respond to this one for a variety of reasons. But I’m going to try to avoid it from now on as I don’t like how I act in my own pit threads (I take things too personally sometimes, but then I level off) or seeing what are otherwise considerate, nice people on other forums who have no reason to hate me personally insult me just because it is the thing to do. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am not the kind of person to insult others behind their back and I guess I expect the same treatment from other people. But at the end of the day if you don’t like yourself you can’t be expected to like other people. But for the record, do you really think insulting me over my use of grammar is going to work? Do you really think I’m going to change my behavior because a handful of anonymous strangers with no authority over me insult me? What would that say about me if I were the type of person who tried to change himself because anonymous strangers with no authority were rude to me? That is like me walking down the street and upon seeing someone wearing a shirt I don’t like running up to them, punching them in the face and telling them to go home and change. Nope, nope nope, that will not work. I would suggest reading Dale Carnegie’s international bestseller [“how to win friend and influence people”.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/002-8359234-2540842?v=glance) You need to start thinking about life from the perspective of the person you want to influence. You guys already know what you want from me, now you have to figure out what I want. Ask yourself this question “what would make Wesley want to use proper grammar on this particular message board” and work on the solution. Try to see things from my perspective and then you and the rest of the grammar police can write up a proposal on all the options and ideas you have about why it is in my best interest to use proper grammar. Also, while all you grammar police members are together you might want to discuss sticks. Texture, color, weight, length, etc are all major factors when picking a stick. The reality is if you are going to walk through life with a stick up your ass you’d better be sure you’ve picked the right one. Maybe you picked a quarter inch brass curtain rod but a half-inch dowel rod could be just what the doctor ordered. A stick that is too heavy can cause lower back problems, but a stick that is too light may not provide the friction necessary to lead the lives you guys are setting out to lead. If you want to test-drive the half-inch dowel rod I’d recommend using the handle on your toilet plunger. It is roughly the same size and shape of the half-inch dowel rod, but you will not have buyer’s remorse after you take it for a test drive. The reality is most purveyors of goods and services are not willing to allow you to return a product after you have stuck it up your ass, so a test run could be in your best interest. Also, don’t limit yourselves to sticks guys. Be creative. Porcelain figurines could work pretty well provided there are no sharp edges. Lets not forget that universal favorite, plastic bottles. If you’re going to walk through life rude and uptight make sure you are giving yourself the tools you need to live that way. You deserve it after all. Toodles ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464/120 "2005-10-04T05:11:28Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Hm, so that explains why you went to the trouble of finding a (deservedly) short-lived thread of mine and bumping it, just to call me stupid. Gotcha. :rolleyes: Yup. I used to like you too. Sorry it had to end up this way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-is-your-keyboard-broken-persnickety/316464.md?page=7)