# Wesley Clark: US was planning to attack seven Muslim states **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241 "2003-09-23T03:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/21 "2003-09-23T16:21:18Z")
As someone who supports President Bush, I continue to rub my hands with glee at the antics of the Democratic candidates for President. I’m hoping that Howard Dean is nominated…and I think there is a decent chance of that actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/22 "2003-09-23T16:27:05Z")
It’s a statement that has to be taken on faith, that’s for sure. But not that much faith. Allow me to quote the Bush playbook, from [http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html) : > [@](#): > > At the time of the Gulf War, we acquired irrefutable proof that Iraq’s designs were not limited to the chemical weapons it had used against Iran and its own people, but also extended to the acquisition of nuclear weapons and biological agents. In the past decade North Korea has become the world’s principal purveyor of ballistic missiles, and has tested increasingly capable missiles while developing its own WMD arsenal. Other rogue regimes seek nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons as well. These states’ pursuit of, and global trade in, such weapons has become a looming threat to all nations. > > We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the United States and our allies and friends. Our response must take full advantage of strengthened alliances, the establishment of new partnerships with former adversaries, innovation in the use of military forces, modern technologies, including the development of an effective missile defense system, and increased emphasis on intelligence collection and analysis. > > … > > It has taken almost a decade for us to comprehend the true nature of this new threat [_a nice hand-wave which places the onus on the President who didn’t call off the hunt for Osama bin Laden–SK_]. Given the goals of rogue states and terrorists, the United States can no longer solely rely on a reactive posture as we have in the past. The inability to deter a potential attacker, the immediacy of today’s threats, and the magnitude of potential harm that could be caused by our adversaries’ choice of weapons, do not permit that option. **We cannot let our enemies strike first.** _(my bolding and snide comments–SK_ The National Security Strategy, and the section in particular, above identifies enemies (plural) who must be proactively confronted. I guarantee that one of the plans to proactively confront these “rogue states” involves kicking the living shit out of them. Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan are all nations listed unfavorably in the [2002 Patterns of Global Terrorism](http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2002/html/). Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria are designated [state sponsors of terrorism](http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2002/html/19988.htm). Lebanon is considered by some to be a client state of Syria. Somalia’s “lack of a functioning central government; protracted state of instability and violence; and long coastline, porous borders, and proximity to the Arabian Peninsula makes it a potential location for international terrorists seeking a transit or launching point to conduct operations elsewhere.” Lest one get the impression that the U.S. considers _all_ Middle East nations to be nests of terrorism, consider the following quote from the same source: “Egypt’s solid record of counterterrorism cooperation included efforts at brokering a cease-fire among Palestinian rejectionist groups that would halt terrorist violence in Israel and the Occupied Territories. The Governments of Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco all actively supported the global campaign against terrorism.” Who would have thought of it from these guys? You’ve got good guys and you’ve got bad guys, all nice and black and white. And allow me to point you to [this illuminating article](http://www.malaysia.net/lists/sangkancil/2001-09/msg00325.html) from September 21, 2001: > [@](#): > > During strategy sessions since last week’s attack, Wolfowitz has lobbied passionately for widening the mission to include an aggressive campaign to finally bring down the regime of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, the sources say–despite certain opposition from allies and world powers such as Russia and China. > > “Iraq is unfinished business, and this is an opportunity to finish it. He and others in the Pentagon have long had a vendetta about getting rid of Saddam and they believe that irrespective of what happened on Sept. 11, he has to be removed,” said a source familiar with the debate who asked to remain anonymous. “They think now’s the moment to push for it again.” > > Powell has maintained that the United States should wage a narrower campaign focused first and foremost on Al Qaeda, a cause for which he can rally–and sustain–strong international cooperation, sources say. The retired four-star general, who orchestrated Operation Desert Storm to oust Iraq from Kuwait in 1991, has also cautioned about the dangers of a wider military engagement with Iraq and other nations on a U.S. list of states that sponsor terrorism. Colin Powell, as I recall, is retiring at the end of this term. Just a coincidence, I’m sure. Again, you have to take Clark’s statement on faith alone. But if Clark is bullshitting, he’s spinning a pretty fucking credible yarn, because if I were a frothing war-hawk looking to kick ass in Africa and the Middle East, those seven nations would be at the top of _my_ list. Do we have any frothing war-hawks in the current administration? (And no, I _still_ don’t work for Wesley Clark. Yet.) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/23 "2003-09-23T16:27:07Z")
I assume that the planning department at the Pentagon has contingency plans to invade just about ANYWHERE (England? Berkley?), just in case they are needed. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/24 "2003-09-23T16:50:49Z")
If there was a grand scheme to occupy half the ME, it seems that it’s not going to be easy. Based on the evidence so far we will need Canada’s full support, and Poland to up its armed forces by a factor of 10, AOT. (among other things) Check back for further reqirements. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/25 "2003-09-23T16:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stick monkey \* > \*\*We already tried this once, in 1812 and got our asses kicked. I don’t think the same results would occur this time, but that place is too freaking cold to bother. > > **goest to hide his invasion plans** \*\* While this is something that most Canadians believe as if it was the holy writ of Jesus, it’s not entirely true. Actually, it is true, it’s just not the whole story. Both sides tried to invade the other on the Great Lakes front in the War of 1912, neither succeded at all. So, while it’s accurate to say that we tried to invade Canada and failed miserably, it’s just as accurate and important to note that the British tried to invade us from Canada, and failed miserably. Besides, whenever a Canadian mentiones this to me, I simply smile and ask;“Game for a rematch?” That usually shuts them up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/26 "2003-09-23T16:51:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > \*\*No Jackmanii… > > I wish to simply point out that not being an expert in either arena should not and does not preclude a candidate from being able to do the job. I don’t think you will find any possible candidate from either party that will be able to be an expert in both Domestic and International politics. > Sam \*\* I’d settle for substantial expertise in either arena, accompanied by a decent grasp of the issues in the non-expert area. All Clark can point to is his military record, which his starry-eyed supporters are confusing with expert knowledge of foreign policy issues. From the Associated Press story by Ron Fournier on Clark’s announcement of candidacy: \*" **Clark, 58, also has no political experience — not even a student council election to his credit — and he has never been pressed to produce a domestic agenda.** None of this deters Clark or his supporters, who point to his foreign policy credentials and television-tested charisma. “It’s not too late to get in the race,” Clark told The Associated Press, adding with a wink and smile, “if I decide to run.” Asked if he was ready to start telling Americans about his position on domestic issues, Clark said, “I’ll do my best, but there will be a lot of things that I don’t know right away.” “I want to learn,” he said. “I’ve got a whole period of time. I’ve got to go around America. I want to talk to people about the issues.” \* Yep, if “television-tested charisma” is all you need, and you’ll settle for “a wink and a smile” instead of a candidate putting himself on the record on domestic issues, then ol’ Wes is your man. We can do a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/27 "2003-09-23T16:58:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > **I’d settle for substantial expertise in either arena, accompanied by a decent grasp of the issues in the non-expert area.** The past two and a half years have been hard on me, too. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/28 "2003-09-23T17:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\* > Yep, if “television-tested charisma” is all you need, and you’ll settle for “a wink and a smile” instead of a candidate putting himself on the record on domestic issues, then ol’ Wes is your man. > \*\* Hell, it worked for Ronnie, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/29 "2003-09-23T17:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Ha ha. Yes, we never, um, planned to carry out the invasion of Canada. Heh…heh. \*\* _puts hands on hips, stern look_ ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/30 "2003-09-23T17:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Yep, if “television-tested charisma” is all you need, and you’ll settle for “a wink and a smile” instead of a candidate putting himself on the record on domestic issues, then ol’ Wes is your man. > We can do a lot better. Domestic issues? Where the fuck are Dubya’s domestic issues? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/31 "2003-09-23T17:56:21Z")
The comments by three of the last four posters (suggesting that any degree of ignorance and duplicity are acceptable in a candidate, provided he is not George Bush) are extremely good evidence that we need a viable third party. What is it with you people? Did he promise to let you rub his medals or something? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/32 "2003-09-23T18:37:32Z")
> [@](#): > > **MrTuffPaws** : Domestic issues? Where the fuck are Dubya’s domestic issues? I’ve heard Laura spanks him regularly for huffing Testers’ model airplane glue and “cleaning up his room” by pushing everything under the bed. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/33 "2003-09-23T19:28:13Z")
Well, I wouldn’t be suprised if the current administration continued into Iran, the signs have been there for a while. People have also spoken about the strategical importance of Somalia. Considering Iran, IMO there has been a steady escalation similar to the process that led to the invasion of Iraq. From [Debkafila](http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=566), a website which I haven’t yet decided if I can trust, but they appear to have good sources: > [@](#): > > … a tough US-backed ultimatum was tabled and carried by the International Atomic Energy Agency board in Vienna on Friday, September 12. Iran was given until October 31 to stump up with full details of its nuclear activities program and prove it was not engaged in covert weapons production. > > If this deadline is not met, the screw will turn again: The IAEA will pronounce Iran in violation of its obligations under the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, opening the door to a UN Security Council debate in December 2003 or January 2004 and economic sanctions Of course, Iran [don’t like it](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/23/wiran23.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/09/23/ixnewstop.html) and parade with their new missiles: > [@](#): > > (Originally from AP): > Iran will scale back its cooperation with the U.N. nuclear watchdog in response to the agency’s Oct. 31 deadline for Tehran to prove its atomic programs are peaceful, Iran’s representative to the agency said Monday. But Britain is [not on board](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/20/wiran20.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixnewstop.html) with the US yet: > [@](#): > > Britain ignored American objections and joined France and Germany in offering Iran a deal to develop a non-military nuclear programme in exchange for dropping attempts to enrich its own fuel, it was disclosed yesterday. > … > Britain has long been at odds with the Bush administration in believing that dialogue with Teheran is preferable to Washington’s more robust approach: comply or face the consequences. It’s no doubt that Iran funds and harbors terrorists (at least not according to [Debkafile again](http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=562) and others), so that should be an easy sell for Bush. And he has said it will use military force if Iran won’t comply. The question is, can he go to war in an election year? According to various reports he has to act during the first half of 2004 if he wants to prevent Iran from obtaining thier first primitive nuclear bomb. If, if, if … ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/34 "2003-09-23T20:50:39Z")
I suppose it might not hurt to pull one [straight from the horse’s mouth](http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/globe_stories/0914/Still_steps_to_pursue_before_a_strikeP.shtml), from September 14, 2001: > [@](#): > > At the Pentagon, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz said the country should be prepared for a sustained battle against terrorism. > > ‘‘The United States will use all our resources to conquer this enemy,’’ he said. > > … > ‘‘It’s not just simply a matter of capturing people and holding them accountable,’’ he said, ‘‘but removing the sanctuaries, removing the support systems, **ending states who sponsor terrorism**. And that’s why it has to be a broad and sustained campaign.’’ > > The nature of such a campaign remains unclear, but military and foreign affairs experts laid out several scenarios, ranging from sending special forces commandos into Afghanistan to operations on a global scale that, one commentator said, would ‘‘make Desert Storm look simple.’’ And again, the list of states which sponsor terrorism include Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Syria, and the Sudan. Lebanon is Syria and Iran’s bitch, and Somalia is FUBAR and just across the way from the Arabian peninsula. We know that Rumsfeld and Perle [wanted a piece of Iraq in 1998](http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm) as members of the Project for the New American Century. We know that those members of the PNAC who didn’t get a job with the Bush Administration [wanted a chunk of Iran and Syria](http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm) on September 20, 2001 (“Should Iran and Syria refuse to comply, the administration should consider appropriate measures of retaliation against these known state sponsors of terrorism.”) We know that the PNAC includes Norman Podhoretz, who wants to take 'em all on (“The regimes that richly deserve to be overthrown and replaced are not confined to the three singled-out members of the axis of evil. At a minimum, the axis should extend to Syria and Lebanon and Libya, as well as “friends” of America like the Saudi royal family and Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak, along with the Palestinian Authority, whether headed by Arafat or one of his henchmen”). And we know that the PNAC got _exactly what it fucking wanted_ with Iraq, without a legitimate _casus belli_. It seems to me all we don’t know is which one of those PNAC psychos told someone in the Pentagon to start working on taking them all on, who in turn told Wesley Clark. And then again, maybe Clark is making it up, because he hates America. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/35 "2003-09-23T21:12:26Z")
Note to **Alien** : Do not trust Debka. Not unless you agree that Israel is always right. Note to **matt** : Invading Canada would be superfluous. We already own your asses, and you even like it. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/36 "2003-09-23T21:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrTuffPaws \* > \*\*Domestic issues? Where the fuck are Dubya’s domestic issues? \*\* Well, he did keep cutting the taxes of the upper class until the economy flowered into its current state of prosperity. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/37 "2003-09-23T21:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GingerOfTheNorth \* > \*\*Besides, whenever a Canadian mentiones this to me, I simply smile and ask;“Game for a rematch?” That usually shuts them up. 😉 \*\* **Dave** , is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/38 "2003-09-23T22:35:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\* > We can do a lot better. \*\* He’s still better than what we got now. despite the tax cuts, i take home less money each paycheck now due to the ruined economy’s high gas prices, higher bus pass costs, higher health insurance costs (for lower benefits, also), higher car insurance costs, etc. So fuck Bush. You’re just jeleous Clark actually showed up for military service instead of playing dressup on an aircraft carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/39 "2003-09-23T23:04:07Z")
Hey Bri… Before you accept as fact the right-wing lies that George Will and William Safire are spreading about Wesley Clark and how he supposedly claimed that the White House called him on 9-11 and that there is no Middle Eastern think tank in Canada, you might want to check out the following link. [http://www.dailyhowler.com](http://www.dailyhowler.com)./dh092303.shtml The truth shall set you free. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/40 "2003-09-24T00:12:38Z")
I can’t decide which would be worse: if Clarke is lying, or if he’s telling the truth. If he’s lying, he’s doing so for political gain (not surprising from a politician, perhaps a little surprising from a General) and he’s doing it within a forum in which the Bush Administration can’t respond adequately without jeopardizing troop movements and/or the credibility behind threats to force Iran, _et al._ into compliance with US demands. If he’s telling the truth, he’s willfully disclosing confidential information regarding troop movements and plans, which I believe is a felony of the highest order. You’d think a (former) general would be more concerned about the lives of his (former) troops. Then again, maybe he’s just using the same logic used by **Sofa King** : “ending states who sponsor terrorism” = “declare war on 7 Muslim nations.” See? No messy, fussy logic problems there, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241.md?page=3)