# Wesley Clark: US was planning to attack seven Muslim states **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241 "2003-09-23T03:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/41 "2003-09-24T03:41:25Z")
What the fuck type of crack is Wes smoking? I like him, I really really like him, but his penchant for eating his foot is starting to worry me. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/42 "2003-09-24T03:55:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\ ***Dave** , is that you? \*\* Umm…Yea. Ginger was using my 'puter. Sorry all, both posts under Ginger’s name in this thread were by me. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/43 "2003-09-24T04:20:15Z")
Don’t get me wrong, **Age Quod Agis**. Remember I said you have to take his statement on faith alone–there is no proof, and given the proclivities of the folks running the show, there never will be one way or the other if they have anything to say about it. What pisses me off is when the Defenders of the Faith charge right in with their cries of “bullshit!” when I think I can make a pretty good case that this is the plan _whether or not Clark is bullshitting_. The stated reasons for the war on Iraq were _fucking absurd_, as we now know. It stands to reason that there was an ulterior motive behind that invasion. I think the motive is pretty goddamned clear. As I pointed out before, the enemies were clearly identified in the _PGT_, the strategic plan was spelled out in the _NSS_–a strategy which purportedly looks very much like the [plan proposed by Wolfowitz in 1992](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/etc/wolf.html), and Wolfowitz himself has been one of the most frank and aboveboard mouthpieces of the plan. As far as Clark giving up the goods? Well, it wouldn’t be the first time someone had to [put the family jewels on the line](http://www.ellsberg.net/) to expose fucked up shit in the White House. If it’s illegal, it at least contains a… shall I say it?.. _moral_ component which might be perceived by some to be worth risking in the long run. [This ain’t the last of these you’ll see.](http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/477527.html) And to think just four years ago it became an impeachable offense to lie about exposing the _real_ family jewels. Those fuckers–and I know you’re out there–are apparently into facials these days. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/44 "2003-09-24T04:24:14Z")
During Allied Force, I was at Rammstein in Germany, and frankly, while everyone respected General Clark, few people really took him seriously. He had a perpensity toward exaggeration and misrepresenting facts (always so we’d get more matereal to perform our missions, but still, a white lie that gets the troops more ammo is still a white lie.) This is probably one of those misrepresentations. A buddy of mine, a combat controller with the 22nd STS (individually attached to the 10th Mtn Div, XVIII Corps) told me once that we had combat contingeny plans to land airborne troops in over 120 different countries (including Canada :D) Just because we plan for the worst in all situations, doesn’t mean we’re gonna carry 'em out. I don’t know, just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/45 "2003-09-24T04:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GingerOfTheNorth \* > \*\*Both sides tried to invade the other on the Great Lakes front in the War of _1912_, neither succeded at all \*\* I’d say. After a hundred years of trying, you’d think at least one side’s worth of the old soldiers would just give up and friggin’ die! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/46 "2003-09-24T05:30:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > **The stated reasons for the war on Iraq were _fucking absurd_, as we now know. It stands to reason that there was an ulterior motive behind that invasion.** As we _NOW_ know? Uhh, okay, if you say so. . . ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/47 "2003-09-24T10:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*As we _NOW_ know? > > Uhh, okay, if you say so. . . \*\* What are you trying to say here? That we knew before the war started that it wasn’t about “a pre-emptive strike” to save ourselves from WMDs? Or that we _still_ don’t know this? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/48 "2003-09-24T12:20:38Z")
Still droning on about the legality of the invasion huh? How like a bunch of obsessed lawyers on coke. And always oozing this smug air of we know better, we’re morally superior, Bushies and his lap-dog Blair are evil. How fucking and utterly boring! Yap yap yap. Screw that! Sadam was evil, there’s your ulterior motive. The Iraqis are better off without him, the world is better off without him. That’s all the reason I need. Also all the reason the Iraqis I have talked to needed. Yesterday I was at a hearing with the Danish Prime minister (Anders Fogh Rasmussen) about something to do with Europe. Anyway a man stood up and excused himself for speaking off topic, but he wanted so much to thank Rasmussen for backing the US in the war. BTW. that man was an Iraqi refugee – who had been in contact with his family before in Iraq, during and after the war. He wanted so much to say that he though it was the right thing to have done, because all he heard was bickering, bickering and bickering. After Baghdad fell a very unusual and spontaneous demonstration took place in Copenhagen; a cortège of Iraqi refugees in their cars, honking and shouting – in mad happiness. Driving past the American embassy to scream their thanks, it was quite absurd to see on the opposite side of the embassy cambered down for the duration of the war, was the left wing anti-war demonstrations with their international solidarity banners. Who exactly is it you guys feel solidarity with eh? I have a friend (yeah yeah :rolleyes: ), an Iranian refugee. He tells me that when he was a child one of the only things that kept him going was a dream the Americans would invade Iran and free them from the cursed Islamic mullahs. Unfortunately for him they never did and he ended up spending a good part of his youth isolated in a cell unable to stand up. He says it did something to him, broke him in some way, that he never quite will be himself again. Perhaps that’s the reason he starts to simmer and frothing when he sees those so called anti imperialist and global solidarity spoiled brats. These are quite enough reasons for me. And quite frankly I think a few of those countries on Wesleys list would be better off for a brisk invasion. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/49 "2003-09-24T16:52:16Z")
according to the logic of your first paragraph, you just justified an invasion of the USA because Bush is evil. (he is, but that’s another story). We will be better off without him come next novermber. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/50 "2003-09-24T17:21:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*according to the logic of your first paragraph, you just justified an invasion of the USA because Bush is evil. (he is, but that’s another story). We will be better off without him come next novermber. \*\* Absolutely! As soon as you prove that Dubbya and company are causing real physical harm to a large portion of the U.S. population ( Jailing, beatings, murder, etc…) I’ll be behind an invasion of the USA 100%. Until then quit whining. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/51 "2003-09-24T17:31:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*according to the logic of your first paragraph, you just justified an invasion of the USA because Bush is evil. (he is, but that’s another story). We will be better off without him come next novermber. \*\* I just hope it’s one of the Countries which still has the concept of “August as a holiday” which invades us. Oh, and lots of nude beaches. And that funny extra colorful play money they call currency- it makes every shopping trip like a board game! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/52 "2003-09-24T17:45:27Z")
Another bit of Pubbie anti-Clark slander refuted: > [@](#): > > Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) today denied reports that she and her husband are the agents behind retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark’s presidential candidacy, reiterated that she will not run for the White House in 2004 and said the reelection of President Bush would be “an overwhelming setback for this country.” > > Speaking at a breakfast with reporters, the former first lady denied the rampant speculation, particularly in Republican circles, that she and former President Bill Clinton had encouraged Clark to run, partly as a stalking horse for a 2004 candidacy of her own, calling such talk “an absurd feat of imagination.” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58006-2003Sep24.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58006-2003Sep24.html) Even more bad news for the ultra-right talk shows and bloggers: > [@](#): > > Asked directly whether there was still a chance she might run for the nomination in 2004, she said, “I’ve said the same thing now consistently for I don’t know how many years – I guess four years. I have nothing to add to my continuing position that I’m no[t] running.” Error correction mine. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58006-2003Sep24.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58006-2003Sep24.html) Some sources for the bogus Hillary behind Clark claims: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46203-2003Sep22.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46203-2003Sep22.html) FYI: I have no position on him yet- still don’t know his positions. Also his VP choice is key. How about John McCain? Heh, heh, heh Pubbies- back off the ledge, I was just kidding. . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/53 "2003-09-24T17:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\* > Of course, 'ol Wesley, at least in that excerpt, presents zero evidence for the 7-country invasion policy being “locked in concrete” \*\* Maybe he just fell asleep during an episode of 24 and got confused. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/54 "2003-09-24T17:57:33Z")
Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Retired General H. Hugh Shelton, [would not vote for Weasely Clark.](http://www.losaltosonline.com/articles/2003/09/23/news/community/news01.txt) > [@](#): > > …“I’ve known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I’m not going to say whether I’m a Republican or a Democrat. I’ll just say Wes won’t get my vote…” Of course, ‘integrity and character issues’ are hardly unknown among Democrat presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/55 "2003-09-24T18:27:14Z")
Or within the most indited Presidential team in history-Ronald Reagan’s. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/56 "2003-09-24T18:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Retired General H. Hugh Shelton, [would not vote for Weasely Clark.](http://www.losaltosonline.com/articles/2003/09/23/news/community/news01.txt) > > Of course, ‘integrity and character issues’ are hardly unknown among Democrat presidents. \*\* There you are! I was getting worried. No drive-bys in a while, thought maybe the Hurricane had knocked you offline for a while. To the meat of your “argument”: Gee former JCOS, I am betting hard core Pubbie, so his lack of support of Clark is none too stunning. Also given the massive amount of politics in the 2 star and above General level ranks of the Army over power, control and prestige- the fact that Shelton still has a hard-on for Clark is none too stunning. The fact the Shelton is stuck with [losaltosonline.com](http://losaltosonline.com) to grind his axe, while Clark is projected to beat Bush in current polls offers a telling look at who has done better for themselves. Not that I love Clark, but yeesh come on try and be a little skeptical. Also “Weasely Clark”, that’s Carrot-top level humor. What far-right site came up with that stinker? Still, good to see you around. Not the same without you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/57 "2003-09-24T18:35:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Or within the most indited Presidential team in history-Ronald Reagan’s. \*\* Ouch! 😃 Poor Bill, he was at least 10 legal actions short of getting his name on a aircraft carrier. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/58 "2003-09-25T07:04:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*What are you trying to say here? That we knew before the war started that it wasn’t about “a pre-emptive strike” to save ourselves from WMDs? Or that we _still_ don’t know this? \*\* Sorry to take so long to respond, **Biggirl**. And that my post was so ambiguous. The former, of course. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/59 "2003-09-25T14:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GingerOfTheNorth \* > \*\*While this is something that most Canadians believe as if it was the holy writ of Jesus, it’s not entirely true. Actually, it is true, it’s just not the whole story. Both sides tried to invade the other on the Great Lakes front in the War of 1912, neither succeded at all. So, while it’s accurate to say that we tried to invade Canada and failed miserably, it’s just as accurate and important to note that the British tried to invade us from Canada, and failed miserably. \*\* Planning on both sides continued even later than that (but I think I slept through the history lecture about the War of 1912). Canada’s “Defence Scheme Number 1” which included plans for tactical invasions of the United States was written by Colonel J. Sutherland “Buster” Brown in 1921 and not officially withdrawn until 1929. The American “War Plan Red” which included plans for invasions and occupation of Canada was developed over a longer period from the early 1920s to early 30s. Very shortly after its completion, it was declared obsolete, but wasn’t officially withdrawn until 1939. Neither plan was ever likely to be put into effect, being little more than training exercises. [Did the U.S. plan an invasion of Canada in the 1920s?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcanadawar.html) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241/60 "2003-09-25T14:42:01Z")
Good information, but you do realize that the “1912” in my post was a typo, I meant “1812”, don’t you?. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wesley-clark-us-was-planning-to-attack-seven-muslim-states/203241.md?page=4)