# West Coast Choppers and their Iron Cross **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807 "2004-09-18T07:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/1 "2004-09-18T07:01:15Z")
To be honest, the first time I saw the “West Coast Choppers” logo, I thought it was from a white supremacist group. Mainly because the logo is a huge Iron Cross, which has been used by modern pro-NSDAP fascist-type people, associated as it is with militaristic (and, hence, fascist) Germany of WWI and WWII. Even though I have seen only white guys were such apparel, it became clear that this wasn’t some neo-Nazi phenomenon. But, is that an Iron Cross? Am I wrong in believing that the Iron Cross has a connection with a connotation of fascist Germany? Do the people know what this means? WRS ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/2 "2004-09-18T08:36:32Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > But, is that an Iron Cross? Am I wrong in believing that the Iron Cross has a connection with a connotation of fascist Germany? Do the people know what this means? Generally speaking, sure. Mostly biker gear, skulls, wings, iron crosses, swastikas, etc., is more for shocl vak]=lue than anything else. It’s a corrupted expression of freedom of speech: “Fuck you, we can do it and you can’t do anything about it.” I rode with the Iron Cross MC in Atlanta in the late 1960’s. We weren’t anti-semitic, not even black/white racist. We didn’t care. Mostly we wanted to be “in your face.” Most of us were disaffected recently separated VietNam vets along with a bunch of older hard-core bikers. Our logo was a large red iron cross. We weren’t neo-nazis by any stretch of the imagination. We discriminated against everyone equally. There are several similar logos that have survived as ‘outlaw biker logos.’ Don’t mean nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/3 "2004-09-18T09:37:16Z")
Dago Choppers, of San Diego, CA, used a pseudo-SS emblem as its logo. The building burned down in 1997 and to my knowledge the company is now defunct, but a painted brick wall undamaged by the fire and featuring the logo can still be seen on Voltaire Ave. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/4 "2004-09-18T10:23:23Z")
- - - This might help in your research efforts: the type of cross that West Coast Choppers uses is not an “iron cross”, but a [Maltese cross](http://images.google.com/images?q=maltese+cross&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search). ~ ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/5 "2004-09-18T10:31:45Z")
- - - Well nuts. Probably should have searched both before hitting reply– - The Iron Cross is a Prussian military medal that dates from 1813: [http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/iron\_cross.htm](http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/iron_cross.htm) … - The Maltese Cross is a bit older, and there are lots of different variations of it, some very iron-ish (look down the page a bit for examples): [http://www2.prestel.co.uk/church/oosj/cross.htm](http://www2.prestel.co.uk/church/oosj/cross.htm) * * * -I had always presumed that the iron cross was a variant of the (much older) Maltese, but I never really looked it up before. ~ ---
**Author:** ![Complex\_Conjugate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Complex\_Conjugate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Complex_Conjugate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/6 "2004-09-18T10:51:59Z")
The iron cross is a symbol of the German miltary and does not have the same connatations as the swastika which was a symbol of the Nazis. It is still used by the German military. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/7 "2004-09-18T11:03:24Z")
FEH!! It’s is clearly not an iron cross. It’s a _chrome_ cross people! silly yuppies! /Obviously kidding… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/8 "2004-09-18T13:05:02Z")
It nigh on impossible to read all that gothic font in capitals. How can I properly mock the yuppie-SUV posers-fanboy-homies if I cannot properly read their back window sticker. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/9 "2004-09-18T14:38:08Z")
I’ve seen more than one black guy in West Coast Chopper gear. As I’m on the East Coast myself, I assume they’ve spread out beyond Long Beach? ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/10 "2004-09-18T15:18:11Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Am I wrong in believing that the Iron Cross has a connection with a connotation of fascist Germany? That’s a bit complicated. The short answer is that it has been designed over a century before the nazis and has been in use as a miltary symbol ever since. Even today it is the official logo of the armed forces. [Historical designs from the department of defense](http://www.bmvg.de/ministerium/geschichte/eisernes_kreuz.php) [general Bundeswehr site](http://www.bundeswehr.de/) But OTOH it is true that using it in non-military contexts is seen as a right-winged and probably nationalist statement. The iron cross is in fact sometimes used by neo-nazis because using nazi symbols is a crime. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/11 "2004-09-18T17:55:19Z")
It was a surfer thing in the 60s. I had one hanging around my nexk when I was 10 or 11. I think It was also a Rat Fink/Big Daddy Roth thing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/12 "2004-09-19T00:41:23Z")
Hmmmm. Someone else out there remembers Big Dadddy and Rat Fink? As a kid, I had a big plastic model Rat Fink on my nightstand. My folks thought it was hideous (it was), so that made it cool automatically. I think the reason bikers and surfers etc like Iron Crosses is because other people are highly annoyed by it, just like having a Darwin fish thingy on your car instead of a Jesus fish thingy. It’s all about messing with people for fun. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-coast-choppers-and-their-iron-cross/264807/13 "2004-09-19T01:06:22Z")
How cool would it be to have a chrome Rat Fink outline on it’s side to put on the back of your car?