# West Point Story: Fact or Fiction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439 "2001-08-15T20:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/21 "2001-08-17T09:56:35Z")
A similar story appears in **Ringworld** by Larry Niven - it mentions a group of Kzin (alien race ultimately defeated by the humans) that became convinced that God is human, and dressed up as humans to confuse God long enough to win the war. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/22 "2001-08-17T13:22:31Z")
wevets said: > [@](#): > > Note to self: vat “dalovindj” is nearing the perimeter of wisdom. Must terminate experiment. No!!! I was supposed to be the chosen one who would lead all the other vats to freedom via kung-fu!!! Don’t I get to pick a colored pill first!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/23 "2001-08-17T20:22:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corrvin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Choosing the losing end of Pascal’s Wager never struck me as a good idea. > > Au contraire…I think we all lose when someone puts aside their life’s work to do things merely because it makes them feel better. “What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul” indeed…and what does it profit us to spend the last half of our careers working toward a possibly illusory goal, instead of working to better the very real lives of those around us? > Corr \*\* Some would argue (and I would agree) that by working to better the lives of those around us, we ARE working towards that “possibly illusory” goal. Think long and hard about how much everyone you know really sacrifices for the sake of others— and I don’t mean for their friends or family, but for total strangers. the number isn’t large. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jdimbert \* > I appreciate you recognizing that I was searching for veracity and not a theological debate. If I had wanted a debate, I would have posted this in GD. > \*\* Welcome to the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/24 "2001-08-17T20:27:26Z")
Actually, nobody here has asked the obvious question: how did Israel, a nation in existence for less than 25 years (at the times of the modern wars in question) and populated largely by refugees, attain this level af martial skill? I’d like an answer to THAT question. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/25 "2001-08-17T20:51:43Z")
What’s the mystery? Experienced, competent soldiers (among many other career types, of course) emigrated to Israel. Israel received heavy subsidies from the United States (so they’d buy American arms). And I’m sure that the knowledge that your neighbors want to destroy you utterly is highly motivating. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/26 "2001-08-17T21:04:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > \*\*And as for atheism, since the truth or falsity of any religion can’t be empirically proven OR disproven, atheism requires as much faith as any religion. Choosing the losing end of Pascal’s Wager never struck me as a good idea. > > \*\* That’s horseshit and you know it. I came about my Atheism by way of education. Not by “faith” or “because my parents were Atheists and that’s all I knew growing up.” And as for Pascal’s Wager…the only thing that proves is what a bunch of blind sheep most religious people are. ---
**Author:** ![adinas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@adinas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adinas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/27 "2011-12-04T20:35:54Z")
At the Russian War College, a general is a guest lecturer and tells the class of officers that the session will focus on potential problems and the resulting strategies. One of the officers in the class begins by asking the first question, “Will we have to fight in a World War Three?” “Yes, comrades, it looks like you will,” answers the general. “And who will be our enemy, Comrade General?” another officer asks. “The likelihood is that it will be China.” The class is surprised, and finally one officer asks, “But Comrade General, we are 150 million people and they are about 1.5 billion. How can we possibly win?” “Well,” replies the general, “Think about it. In modern war, it is not the quantity, but the quality that is the key. For example, in the Middle East, 5 million Jews have been fighting against 300 million Arabs, and the Jews have been the winners every time.” “But sir,” asks the panicky officer, “Do we have enough Jews”? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/28 "2011-12-04T23:48:59Z")
Does the o.p.s story remind anyone of a similary B/s one recently on these boards where a left wing lecturer was put in his place by a Navy SEAL who’d done fifteen tours, the entire class cheered and joined the Republican party, an American Eagle shed tears on the flag and the lecturer was sacked the following day? I don’t know which is more bizarre, the people who make these fairy tales up, or the people who believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/29 "2011-12-05T00:15:51Z")
I dunno… Everyone posted in to scoff at G-d, and look what happened three weeks later. Thanks SDMD: you provoked 9/11! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/30 "2011-12-05T00:31:16Z")
For a zombie though at least the “wake-up” post was damn funny… ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/31 "2011-12-05T00:33:04Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I don’t know which is more bizarre, the people who make these fairy tales up, or the people who believe them. How about the fact that you are commenting on a 11 year old zombie thread?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/32 "2011-12-05T00:49:57Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > A similar story appears in **Ringworld** by Larry Niven - it mentions a group of Kzin (alien race ultimately defeated by the humans) that became convinced that God is human, and dressed up as humans to confuse God long enough to win the war. Dressed up as humans, by wearing genuine human-skin masks… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/33 "2011-12-05T01:36:41Z")
A period is now an apostrophe? That’s what I get from the necromancer.s post. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/34 "2011-12-05T02:54:08Z")
was it from the re-telling or was that three-star PhD general lousy in simple communication? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/35 "2011-12-05T03:32:59Z")
I think the proper response would be to send an email back to the person who sent it to you and tell them that it’s had a profound effect on your life. You are renouncing the false heresy of Christianity and are turning to the true faith of Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/36 "2011-12-05T04:05:01Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > I really don’t want to get into the nature of God as I understand him, but the way I see it, humanity is a pawn in the struggle between God and Satan. The deaths of millions could genuinely serve a higher purpose in that struggle. So why couldn’t God be responsible? This is the same God who completely annihillated Sodom and Gomorrah, just because a lot of homosexuals and “bad people” lived there, isn’t it? > I think that God serves his own best interests, at the cost of anyone’s life. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was bad hospitality to guests. A very grievous sin in the ancient world in all cultures. Homosexuality was not yet declared a sin by the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/37 "2011-12-05T04:26:00Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > For a zombie though at least the “wake-up” post was damn funny… I thought of it more as a golem thread … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/38 "2011-12-05T05:30:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the proper response would be to send an email back to the person who sent it to you and tell them that it’s had a profound effect on your life. You are renouncing the false heresy of Christianity and are turning to the true faith of Judaism. One odd footnote to this story is that there is in fact a well-known [Rabbi Asher Wade](http://www.asherwade.com/show.asp?PID=5). “Wade” is a pretty uncommon Jewish name, so it’s likely that the story is meant to be about him. He has a rather unusual story; he was a Methodist pastor who later converted to Judaism. He converted in 1983 and was ordained a rabbi in 1992. Interestingly, his website says that he worked as “an intern in adolescent & marriage counseling at the US-Army chaplaincy center” in Berlin in 1974, but it doesn’t appear that he was a chaplain, and of course he wasn’t Jewish at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/39 "2011-12-06T23:05:59Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > For a zombie though at least the “wake-up” post was damn funny… I get your point, thats really bizarre. I just look at whats on the front page and post accordingly, perhaps I unknowingly entered a temporal flux ? But must go now, I want to express an opinion on these new fangled "Bustles "slutty women are wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439/40 "2011-12-07T04:31:09Z")
Oops, didn’t notice zombie nature of post. Never mind… (Where’s Emily Latella when we really need her?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-point-story-fact-or-fiction/76439.md?page=3)