# West Virgina-legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853 "2004-07-19T18:13:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/1 "2004-07-19T18:13:41Z")
Okay, I learned as a kid that West Virginia was formed during the Civil War when Virginia Suceeded from the Union, a chunk of the state wished to remain and itself broke off to form West Virgina. Then today I was going over my copy of the US constitution for another reason and noticed Art. 4, Sec. 3, which states that it takes the approval of congress and the state(s) invovled to break up a state(unless I’m reading this wrong). I’m getting the idea that Virginia didn’t exactly approve of a couple of it’s citizens breaking off to form their own state, so assuming all of this is correct, is West Virginia “Illigitimate”? I know it was accepted because of the Civil War, but still, couldn’t Virginia hypotheically to get their lost land back once the war was over? Is there something I’m missing here? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/2 "2004-07-19T18:41:49Z")
If I recall correctly, what happened was this : the residents of the Northwestern part of Virginia, today called West Virginia, felt that the Virginia Legislature wasn’t representing their interests, and the declaration of secession was just another indignity. So they elected their own representatives after the declaration, and formed a body which was duly recognized as the official Virginia Legislature by the Federal Govt., and duly voted to divide their portion of the state from the rebellious southeastern portion. It’s constitutionally shady, but it was done in exceptional circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/3 "2004-07-19T19:02:27Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > If I recall correctly, what happened was this : the residents of the Northwestern part of Virginia, today called West Virginia, felt that the Virginia Legislature wasn’t representing their interests, and the declaration of secession was just another indignity. So they elected their own representatives after the declaration, and formed a body which was duly recognized as the official Virginia Legislature by the Federal Govt., and duly voted to divide their portion of the state from the rebellious southeastern portion. > > It’s constitutionally shady, but it was done in exceptional circumstances. **Candid Gamera** has it very much right. While there may have been a body in Richmond which considered itself the Virginia State Legislature, constitutionally it was composed of persons in rebellion against the United States and was therefore legally invalid as the state legislature from the perspective of the Union. The persons elected from the loyalist counties of northwest Virginia therefore constituted the legally constituted legislature of the state, and their request that their counties be formed into a loyal state separate from the portion that was in rebellion was accepted by the Congress as the request of the Virginia State Legislature – the one loyal to the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/4 "2004-07-19T21:00:52Z")
And of course, during reconstruction one of the conditions for re-admitance to the Union was for East Virginia to formally approve the earlier slightly-dodgy creation of West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/5 "2004-07-19T21:22:50Z")
East Virginia is called simply Virginia. (Until 3000AD, when it changed its name to East West Virginia). ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/6 "2004-07-19T21:55:57Z")
Oops! I read the topic as “_West **Vagina** -legal?_” :o ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/7 "2004-07-19T22:46:08Z")
So it would seem that WV is the real (initial) Virgina in the legal sense, and that VA was lost to the rebel forces in the War of Northen Agression. Too bad they couldn’t hold onto the name. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/8 "2004-07-20T00:58:33Z")
If I recall correctly, the original name chosen for the new state was Kenawah. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/9 "2004-07-20T01:01:44Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > If I recall correctly, the original name chosen for the new state was Kenawah. Kanawha, after the major river flowing through it. And while I have no more cite than you, I recall hearing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/10 "2004-07-20T01:48:22Z")
From [this page](http://www.usgennet.org/usa/wv/state/wv_info.html): > [@](#): > > At first it was proposed to create the “State of Kanawha,” but the name was changed in December, 1861, and in May, 1862, a State constitution was ratified by the people and the legislature. ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_dePlume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Josh\_dePlume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Josh_dePlume)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/11 "2004-07-20T02:08:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And of course, during reconstruction one of the conditions for re-admitance to the Union was for East Virginia to formally approve the earlier slightly-dodgy creation of West Virginia. What was the alternative to re-admitance? Being a separate country like they wanted to be? Becoming a territory rather than a state? Did the Union attach some significance to secession then? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/12 "2004-07-20T03:08:15Z")
> [@Josh\_dePlume](#): > > What was the alternative to re-admitance? Being a separate country like they wanted to be? Becoming a territory rather than a state? Did the Union attach some significance to secession then? I’ve gotten the idea that the union would not even give lip service to the idea of the southern states being seperate in any respect while the war was going on, but as soon as it ended, they began treating the South like a conquered nation. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-virgina-legal/255853/13 "2004-07-20T03:49:53Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I’ve gotten the idea that the union would not even give lip service to the idea of the southern states being seperate in any respect while the war was going on, but as soon as it ended, they began treating the South like a conquered nation. There were a number of conditions attached to “re-admission” (which was actually legally the recognition of the re-formed state government, since the legal fiction was that the states could not and therefore did not secede; what they did conceptually was to fall into anarchy, since they had no state government loyal to the Union). One item for all former Confederate states was to ratify the 14th Amendment. For Virginia, recognition of WV was added. The alternative was to continue being governed as military territories until they were prepared to form a government that would be satisfactory to the national government. This was constitutional due to Art IV Sec 4 – the formerly existent secessionistic governments not being valid governments under the U.S., the federal government undertook to protect them against rebellion and domestic violence, and never mind that it was protecting them from themselves!