West Virginia to geographically reasonable conference

[crypto]

@Munch

Well, the Big 10 has done a tremendous job of shitting on any hopes of Notre Dame joining up throughout the years, so I wouldn’t hold your breath. ND has joined the ACC for all intents and purposes. They may not be full-fledged members with the football team, but they’ve committed to five games a season, which is all the schedule can handle until something forces them to go all in down the line. The Big 10 would be a better fit - as it at least has some of their historical rivalries that wouldn’t be forced off the schedule.

However, the argument about money no longer holds. Northwestern gets a far bigger cut from the Big Ten Network than ND gets from NBC.

You may be right.

But ND being a member of the ACC really doesn’t matter without football. They did the same thing in the Big East, and no one cared. Yes, they played basketball in the conference, but basketball teams play all over the place, so it didn’t build any lasting rivalries.

No, IMO you need the football program to build the rilvalries that come from playing the same teams every year. Those rivalries will move to the other sports over time, but without football, they just don’t stick. At least, that’s how i see it.
ND will never take Navy off their schedule. There are very good and historic reasons why Navy and ND play every year, and I don’t think ND will ever get rid of NAVY. Sure it is usually a win, but that’s not why they keep them on the schedule. Other than that, as far as I’m concerned, every other rivalry should be fair game.

When PSU and Pitt stopped playing, it crushed a lot of people. But we all survived. Now, WVU and Pitt no longer play in the same confernce. That was a century old rivalry, and POOF! Gone. The world didn’t stop turning.

ND doesn’t have to play USC, Michigan and Ohio State every year for the world to be right. They also have some other schools they play regulary, including Pitt, Army and at one time Miami. But things change.

If ND wants to keep their traditional rivalries, they can have two or three non-confernce games to use for Navy, USC, and whoever else. But they will hit most of their traditional rivalries if they went to the Big 10.

Maybe that will never happen now. But if ai were the ACC, i would put the screws to ND ASAP. Either in or out. If out, they get bounced from the league and ACC searches for the best possible school to replace them. Maybe then, ND might have their hand forced. right now, too many schools and conferences kiss ND’s ass. That needs to stop.

[Pixel_Dent]

I don’t see why this is even being debated. Everyone knows West Virginia has Mountains and they have “West” right in their name. Obviously they should join the Mountain West Conference.

[etv78]

@Pixel_Dent

I don’t see why this is even being debated. Everyone knows West Virginia has Mountains and they have “West” right in their name. Obviously they should join the Mountain West Conference.

I hope that’s a whoosh

[pancakes3]

I understand that money is a factor but I’m really sad that Maryland is leaving the ACC.

[etv78]

@pancakes3

I understand that money is a factor but I’m really sad that Maryland is leaving the ACC.

+1

[RetroVertigo]

@pancakes3

I understand that money is a factor but I’m really sad that Maryland is leaving the ACC.

Meh. Maryland wasn’t one of the Big 4 in the ACC and didn’t have any big (nationally known) rivalries with any of the other schools. Of all the conference moves, I consider one of the least impacting.

[crypto]

@RetroVertigo

Meh. Maryland wasn’t one of the Big 4 in the ACC and didn’t have any big (nationally known) rivalries with any of the other schools. Of all the conference moves, I consider one of the least impacting.

Maybe.

But Maryland won a National Championship while being a member of the ACC, and they"fit". Much better that Syracuse, for example.

At least MD always felt like an ACC school to me. I doubt the fans will like the move.

Pitt and Syracuse seem to be enjoying their first season of basketball in the ACC, so I for one am looking forward to the types of kids they will be able to recruit now.

The very good, one and done players are going to Kentucky and a few other schools. Duke and UNC are not known for getting 5 one and done players to fill out their annual “fab 5” line-ups, and it’s one of the reason they are struggling this year. ACC schools want their players to graduate and spend 4 years in the program so they can win more games and make more money for the school. That’s all good for a kid who cares about his education, but most of these kids don’t plan on sticking around college any longer than they have to. So, most of them major in Basketball studies, and graduate with a first round pick and a pile of money.

[Munch]

@etv78

I hope that’s a whoosh

I hope your not being able to determine if that was a joke or not is a whoosh.

[etv78]

Woosh-joke, potato-potahto.

[crypto]

@etv78

I hope that’s a whoosh

@Munch

I hope your not being able to determine if that was a joke or not is a whoosh.

@etv78

Woosh-joke, potato-potahto.

My head hurts.

[opossum]

@Snupzilla

While I agree that UVA is not good pick from an excitement and football perspective, I think the Big 10’ last two moves (Maryland and Rutgers (Rutgers!)) has proven that they don’t really care about either of those two things. If they mattered, the conference would still have 12 members. The Big 10 just wants a piece of the Virginia cable money for their network and be closer to where the recruits are.

The fact that the Big 10 invited Rutgers is as close to solid proof that Virginia said no to joining the Big Ten as you can get. If you need more proof, look at the fact that Virginia voted for a $52 million exit fee and a grant of media rights. Virginia isn’t going anywhere willingly (although I guess you could argue Maryland didn’t go willingly either, it’s kind of a sordid story).

The Maryland move is sad, and I feel sorry for their fans. I don’t think many of them are happy with it.

West Virginia should be in the ACC. I think they would have been next year, if they had turned down the Big 12 (or if the Big 12 had added Louisville or someone else instead). After Maryland left, it was down to Louisville and Connecticut as replacements, and Louisville got the invitation. I think West Virginia would have gotten the invitation if they were in Louisville’s spot in the AAC last year, for many of the same reasons Louisville got it. (Trade Louisville’s historical similarities with a lot of ACC schools for instant renewed rivalries with the erstwhile Big East schools and the rest is roughly even compared to to UConn).

Notre Dame’s deal with the ACC includes 5 football games a year (only three fewer games/year than the other members), and all other sports. The Big East deal was just other sports. I expect the number of ACC football games Notre Dame plays to increase in the future.

[RetroVertigo]

@opossum

.

West Virginia should be in the ACC. I think they would have been next year, if they had turned down the Big 12 (or if the Big 12 had added Louisville or someone else instead). After Maryland left, it was down to Louisville and Connecticut as replacements, and Louisville got the invitation. I think West Virginia would have gotten the invitation if they were in Louisville’s spot in the AAC last year, for many of the same reasons Louisville got it.

I disagree. West Virginia does not have the academic reputation that the ACC feels its members should have. YMMV of course.

[ElvisL1ves]

@opossum

The fact that the Big 10 invited Rutgers is as close to solid proof that Virginia said no to joining the Big Ten as you can get.

You may be overlooking the expected revenue stream from the Big Ten Network from having an entry in the New York market. They expect more of the same from the DC/Balt market from adding Maryland. They may well be disappointed, since college sports are the minor leagues in metro areas that are well served by the pros, but those are still probably better bets than Virginia. What’s *their *fan base?

[opossum]

@RetroVertigo

I disagree. West Virginia does not have the academic reputation that the ACC feels its members should have. YMMV of course.

Louisville is about the same as WVU these days in the undergraduate rankings, and the ACC invited them.

Louisville took some unlucky turns over the years and wound up in a bad position until about 25 or so years ago, but it’s turning around now. (I think all but three ACC schools can look at the University of Louisville’s 215 year history and think “that could have easily been us.”) West Virginia has obligations to its state that make some of its numbers look bad, but isn’t all that different from NC State or FSU, especially if you consider the relative wealth of the state it serves.

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

You may be overlooking the expected revenue stream from the Big Ten Network from having an entry in the New York market. They expect more of the same from the DC/Balt market from adding Maryland. They may well be disappointed, since college sports are the minor leagues in metro areas that are well served by the pros, but those are still probably better bets than Virginia. What’s their fan base?

I don’t disagree that Rutgers was added to attempt to get cable money out of the NYC market, and share your skepticism about the prospects of that. For TV, I think Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan already got them about as far as they’re going to ever be in NYC (i.e., football to watch on Saturday that they might care about more than the SEC or ACC games on ESPN). Rutgers really only gives those teams some nearby games for their NYC fans and alums to attend live.

I said Rutgers joining the Big Ten was good evidence that Virginia said no because if the Big Ten’s #13 and #14 could have been Maryland and Virginia, Rutgers would have still been available for #15 or #16, and the ACC would have been destabilized even further than it was. Imagine if on the day the Big Ten announced Maryland and Rutgers were joining, they had instead announced that Maryland, Virginia, Rutgers and UConn were joining. Or Maryland, Virginia, UNC, and Georgia Tech. It didn’t happen because everyone but the Big Ten, Maryland, Rutgers (and most likely UConn) didn’t want any part of it.

[ElvisL1ves]

UConn makes no secret of their desperation to join the ACC too. Probably not happening, given their small market and the dubious future of their basketball program after Jim Calhoun leaves.

The basketball program is why the ACC took Louisville, not their academic ranking, of course - it gives them an entry into the rabid Kentucky fan base, and a chance to tweak the SEC. They’re not geographically inappropriate, either.

[crypto]

@opossum

The fact that the Big 10 invited Rutgers is as close to solid proof that Virginia said no to joining the Big Ten as you can get. If you need more proof, look at the fact that Virginia voted for a $52 million exit fee and a grant of media rights. Virginia isn’t going anywhere willingly (although I guess you could argue Maryland didn’t go willingly either, it’s kind of a sordid story).

<snip>

Notre Dame’s deal with the ACC includes 5 football games a year (only three fewer games/year than the other members), and all other sports. The Big East deal was just other sports. I expect the number of ACC football games Notre Dame plays to increase in the future.

Can you share the sordid story? I have not heard anything regarding Maryland’s move and thought it was their choice to go.

Also, i didn’t realize that ND has contracted for 5 ACC opponents each year. That’s actually great news for the ACC and it may be what tips ND in finally joining a conference. Do you know if the teams they play will be on a rotation, or does ND get to pick their opponents?

I would imagine if ND gets to choose, Pitt would be on their schedule every year. They have had a fairly good run of home and home games between the two schools, and Pitt/ND games were basically annual when both schools were independent. I wouldn’t mind seeing an official, annual Pitt/ND game on the schedule. I would imagine that the other ACC schools would want to see a rotation of ND, though.

[ElvisL1ves]

ND is an ACC member for all sports except football, where it is 5/8 of a member. Without their NBC contract, they might be a full member, period. ND is also probably reluctant to give up their rivalry games with Michigan and USC, not to mention Purdue and Indiana.

As for WVU, they had a great rivalry with Pitt once upon a time, although with no one else in particular, and it would be great to see it return. So, the ACC makes the most sense.

[crypto]

Just checked and Pitt’s 2014 football schedule is out.

ND is NOT on the schedule.

Bah. There is not one game that excites me as a fan or alum.

Maybe after 10 years of play in the ACC, i might have some interest, but with no ND, WVU and obviously Penn State, there isn’t any rivalry game of note (except Syracuse, who I have never cared about).

I don’t care about Virginia or Virginia tech. Or Duke. Or any of the other football schools in the ACC.

[Munch]

@ElvisL1ves

ND is also probably reluctant to give up their rivalry games with Michigan and USC, not to mention Purdue and Indiana.

ND has already taken Michigan off the schedule. Their game this year will be their last until a new contract is agreed upon (unlikely in the near future, given their scheduling logjam). They haven’t played Indiana regularly since 1958 (just one game since then, in 1991) - it’s Navy they’ll never take off the schedule. Purdue and Michigan St. have the other very long streaks against the Irish - but other than longevity, there’s not much there.

[pancakes3]

@RetroVertigo

Meh. Maryland wasn’t one of the Big 4 in the ACC and didn’t have any big (nationally known) rivalries with any of the other schools. Of all the conference moves, I consider one of the least impacting.

Very few schools have nationally known rivalries, especially with schools not in their state. On top of that Maryland isn’t a very good football program to begin with. I’m more sad because of the basketball impact, which unfortunately is dwarfed by football money. Maryland had a really interesting feisty little brother thing going on with Duke Basketba, and has another one with Virginia everything else.

I’d rather see BC go than Maryland.

@Stink Fish Pot

Just checked and Pitt’s 2014 football schedule is out.

ND is NOT on the schedule.

Bah. There is not one game that excites me as a fan or alum.

Maybe after 10 years of play in the ACC, i might have some interest, but with no ND, WVU and obviously Penn State, there isn’t any rivalry game of note (except Syracuse, who I have never cared about).

I don’t care about Virginia or Virginia tech. Or Duke. Or any of the other football schools in the ACC.

Awww… I thought UVa and Pitt had a nice little home/home a couple years ago when you all still had Palko, but I get what you mean. There are no historic/geographic rivalry games which is disappointing especially for an alum. Also it looks like Homecoming is going to be either VT or GT which is doubly weird.