# West Wing 1/8 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127 "2006-01-09T07:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/21 "2006-01-09T23:34:19Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > You’re right. I forgot to mention that. My guess is that Jorge Santos is going to become a Billy Carter/Roger Clinton figure if his brother gets elected. > > Considering the amount of effort the writers are devoting to added characters and potential plotlines to the Santos group with no similar effort being devoted to the Vinnick group, it’s looking increasingly unlikely a party change is being planned in the upcoming West Wing elections. Well Vinnick hasn’t gotten any airtime of significance in the last two episodes. Vinnick is a good candidate and while a party change might be interesting from a practical stand-point too many loved characters who are obviously still going to be around (Josh, Donna, probably CJ, Toby) are Democrats and it wouldn’t make any sense for them to have a place in a Vinnick administration. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/22 "2006-01-10T00:00:05Z")
On a related note, I got a sense that Donna is being set up to have a prominent role in the First Lady’s office which I think it a slap in her face after so long being intricately involved in the West Wing. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/23 "2006-01-10T00:13:26Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > On a related note, I got a sense that Donna is being set up to have a prominent role in the First Lady’s office which I think it a slap in her face after so long being intricately involved in the West Wing. As Josh’s secretary. First Lady’s Chief of Staff would be a step up, especially if she’s an activist first lady. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/24 "2006-01-10T00:22:00Z")
So how will Leo be written out of the series? Will he die before the election? After the election but before the inauguration? After the inauguration? Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/25 "2006-01-10T00:44:00Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > it’s looking increasingly unlikely a party change is being planned in the upcoming West Wing elections. I thought there was much speculation that they will end the series. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/26 "2006-01-10T00:58:18Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > especially if she’s an activist first lady. With a tattoo like, that, sh…sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/27 "2006-01-10T02:22:07Z")
I can’t help but stare at Janeane Garofalo’s eyebrows. They seem much more prominent than I remember her having previously. Does anyone else find them disconcerting? And whatever happened to Charlie Young? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/28 "2006-01-10T02:27:31Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I can’t help but stare at Janeane Garofalo’s eyebrows. They seem much more prominent than I remember her having previously. Does anyone else find them disconcerting? > > And whatever happened to Charlie Young? The eyebrows have to be a joke. Yes, it annoys me every time her face is on camera. Why would they be so blatantly fake and ugly? ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/29 "2006-01-10T13:12:29Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > And whatever happened to Charlie Young? We really don’t see much of Charlie anymore. It was pointed out here that it would have been natural to see him and Zoe as guests at Ellies wedding, but we saw neither. Guess he was too busy working in that office with a bunch of other newby foreign policy assistants or whatever it is he’s doing since graduating from college. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/30 "2006-01-10T13:51:02Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Also, there seems to be hints of Santos’ brother becoming a problem. Did anyone notice that Jorge was the doctor that was helping Bobby Simone when he died? That doesn’t bode well for Santos. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/31 "2006-01-10T13:53:26Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > As Josh’s secretary. First Lady’s Chief of Staff would be a step up, especially if she’s an activist first lady. Yeah, I got a strong FLCoS vibe off that scene. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/32 "2006-01-10T16:37:37Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#): > > I thought that having something at the very end of this episode saying that Leo had died in his hotel room would have fit. Everyone who follows the show knows that John Spencer is gone, and even if they had reshot a new ending, it could have worked. Except that it is my understanding that Leo is in at least four more upcoming episodes. My guess is that after his last filmed episode runs the next episode will tell of him having a recurrence of his heart problem and his death. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/33 "2006-01-10T19:12:00Z")
Responding to some earlier posts… I also thought Martin Sheen’s brief salute to John Spencer at the beginning of the show was a nice touch. Was it just me, though, or did Sheen seem a little too… jaunty? There was some reference during one of the New Hampshire Democratic Primary episodes to Santos’s brother’s checkered past. I forget exactly what was said - Josh was trying to brace Santos for the press scrutiny that was bound to come - but I agree that it looks like he’s being poised to become a pain in the ass a la Billy Carter. When Leo McGarry was in the hospital, President Bartlet consulted him on who should replace him as WHCoS. Bartlet said something like, “Who would you pick?” Leo replied with something like, “There’s only one,” and Bartlet nodded knowingly. Looked like they pretty quickly reached a consensus on C.J. Josh seemed to take it pretty well, although it wasn’t long afterwards that he left for Santos’s fledgling presidential campaign (and was chewed out by a resentful Toby for doing so). How will they handle Spencer’s death? If he dies before the election, it could become an issue for the voters - will Santos quickly pick a new running mate (who would be confirmed by the DNC’s executive committee, I suppose), or will he wait to see how the election unfolds? If the latter, or if right after Santos wins the election, he could name a new VP through the 25th Amendment. That could provide some drama right there, if they handle it right. Cecil had a column on this (vacancies in the presidency or vice presidency between election and Inauguration Day) some years ago, as I recall. See also the 20th Amendment. Lastly, when will the election actually take place? Here we are in January in the real world, and apparently in WWW, still six weeks out from the election. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/34 "2006-01-10T21:10:26Z")
What happens if the VP wins the election, but dies before being inaugerated? What if he dies before the electoral college votes? Could the President-Elect tell the electors to vote for a new guy, or would he have to be confirmed by Congress? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/35 "2006-01-10T22:32:01Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > What happens if the VP wins the election, but dies before being inaugerated? > > What if he dies before the electoral college votes? Could the President-Elect tell the electors to vote for a new guy, or would he have to be confirmed by Congress? That’s a good question nobody really knows the answer to. Jeff Greenfield of TV news wrote a pretty good book, [“The People’s Choice”](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452277051/qid=1136931846/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-2672269-4813710?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) about what happens if the President Elect dies after the election but before the Electoral College votes, and what happens if the VP elect dies nobody quite knows for sure. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/36 "2006-01-10T23:44:17Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > What happens if the VP wins the election, but dies before being inaugerated? > > What if he dies before the electoral college votes? Could the President-Elect tell the electors to vote for a new guy, or would he have to be confirmed by Congress? Taft’s VP in 1912, James Sherman, died on October 30 a week before the election. The Republicans picked Nicholas Butler to replace him on the ballot. Didn’t matter as Taft just got 8 electoral votes (Utah and Vermont). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/37 "2006-01-11T00:35:34Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Didn’t matter as Taft just got 8 electoral votes (Utah and Vermont). One can’t help but wonder what UT and VT had in common. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/38 "2006-01-11T01:06:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One can’t help but wonder what UT and VT had in common. Vermont used to be one of the most consistently Republican states in the country. It’s only turned Democratic in the last 20-30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/39 "2006-01-11T15:29:15Z")
I don’t think it reallys matters what US law says on the subject. The show is going to go with a choice that’s plausible within their world, doesn’t glaringly sound forced, _and_ what the budget can afford when it comes to actors. Seems to me the easiest way out of this is to have Vinick win the election - then the whole issue of who Santos will pick becomes moot. That’s the direction I’d take. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127/40 "2006-01-11T15:47:16Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#): > > I don’t think it reallys matters what US law says on the subject. The show is going to go with a choice that’s plausible within their world, doesn’t glaringly sound forced, _and_ what the budget can afford when it comes to actors. Seems to me the easiest way out of this is to have Vinick win the election - then the whole issue of who Santos will pick becomes moot. That’s the direction I’d take. It’s obvious at this point that Santos is the winner. They’ve spent tons of time developing Santos, his wife, and Janeane Garofolo’s character, and almost no time on Vinick’s staff. Having Santos around means they get to keep at least Josh and Donna, and potentially some other original characters. If there’s to be another season, Santos will win. If not, then it’s anybody’s guess and Leo isn’t an issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-1-8/339127.md?page=3)