# West Wing 10-1 (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 2, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046 "2003-10-02T02:16:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/1 "2003-10-02T02:16:59Z")
It’s already 10:19, so I’m probably a little late getting in the line to strangle John Wells. What in God’s name is wrong with him?!?!? The show has been dumbed down beyond anything imaginable. Leo saying “Dr. King” twice in what was clearly lazy writing. Bartlet not acting like himself. “Please, sit,” to Toby, in Toby’s office. While last week’s episode was “Sorkinesque” rather than true “Sorkinese,” tonight’s didn’t come close to comparing. And for the next few episodes - [spoiler]The new Vice President is going to be Bill Lumbergh from Office Space. Mm…yeah…NO. From the preview for next week’s, it showed Josh and Amy kissing, while the voiceover said, “And old flames reignite…” [/spoiler] And so another once-great show enters a terrible decline… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/2 "2003-10-02T02:28:36Z")
Huh? [spoiler]It looked to me like the Secretary of State, played by William Devane, was featured in the “next week” tease. According to IMDb, Gary Cole played Bill Lumbergh. And even if William Devane did play in that movie, which I’ll never see, what difference could it make to this character?[/spoiler] My thoughts are that now they are finally done with the moronic let’s-do-a-dramatic-cliffhanger-to-attract-the-Fear-Factor-moron-viewers episodes, they can cut the nonsense and get back to doing the real West Wing for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/3 "2003-10-02T02:33:34Z")
To avoid being banished to the Pit, I’ll discuss some plot points - - The intern was pointless - So was the midnight parking garage meeting. Why’d she have to fly down from New York? - Did Charlie have a single line? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/4 "2003-10-02T04:04:13Z")
Charlie didn’t have any lines. Sad. There were some other points that seemed better. Like Josh’s counterpart (Atwater?) telling Josh he’s being an ass for thinking they’d politicize the temp gig. On a separate note, tonight’s rerun on Bravo was _Shibboleth_, which is a pretty cool name for an episode. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/5 "2003-10-02T07:43:21Z")
Not only that, it was a pretty cool episode. Remember when the show was a policy debate (or not even “remember” watch earlier this evening where they showed a second season episode that was really 42 minutes of discussion on application of the separation of church and state?) Yes, there was political intrigue and personal stuff…but there was policy in the foreground. Even the sensationalistic ones were policy heavy. But tonight - no. And it looks like next week, no. It looks like just an office politics/relationship show with the White House as set dressing. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/6 "2003-10-02T09:10:24Z")
Fun fact: William Devane and Martin Sheen played John and Bobby Kennedy in _Missiles of October_ in 1974. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/7 "2003-10-02T12:01:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*Fun fact: William Devane and Martin Sheen played John and Bobby Kennedy in _Missiles of October_ in 1974. \*\* Bobby: Mowr chowdah, Johhn? John: No, thanks dahr, Baawby. [/Mayor Quimby over the top accent] ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/8 "2003-10-02T12:21:37Z")
I don’t like the way they wrapped up the whole Zoey kidnapping plot. Of course she was going to be found, otherwise Bartlet would permanently resign due to grief. We see an FBI agent getting a phone call, rushing in all excited, and then the next thing we know there’s a thousand police cars surrounding a trailer and Zoey looking a little out of it. No mention of the raid, where she was being kept, or even who was behind it. It’s like they dusted off their hands, said, “Well, we wrapped up that plot line,” and are getting to rush off to do a political ER clone. I wonder if Sorkin is sitting back feeling smug, waiting for NBC to come begging him to return. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/9 "2003-10-02T12:42:59Z")
Yeah, I thought the conclusion of the kidnapping plot was just too abrupt. It felt like the writers just got tired of the whole thing and said, “Okay, the FBI finds her and everybody’s happy. The End.” ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/10 "2003-10-02T13:47:50Z")
And they just don’t know how to write the working relationship between Margaret and Leo. _sigh_ I’m sure the intern will come back later, but now was an odd time to introduce him. Then ending was so pat, forced, and abrupt - I’m still confused as to what went on in the little trailer. More importantly, how did they find them? Why couldn’t we hear the anonymous phone call to the FBI? And when will Abby get her hair re-done?!? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/11 "2003-10-02T15:09:07Z")
Horrible episode. Firstly, the reasoning they gave for finding Zoey was that she made a cell phone call?!? Terrorists kidnap the President’s daughter, and don’t frisk her for a CELL PHONE?!? Riiiiiiight. Secondly, when Leo and Bartlett are talking in the residency, they’re obviously in a sun room. There are sun plants in the window. The window is massively bright. So why can’t I see anyone’s face? Is there a black hole between the window and Leo that’s sucking up all the light? Thirdly, why have 4 minutes of watching people’s reactions to CJ’s press conference? Why not show CJ? The direction in this episode was disgraceful. Did Josh’s girlfriend get a boob job? Good points: I immediately thought that the President should offer to campaign for Walken in the next election. What a great job he did in the circumstances. I also agree with Shibb that Josh’s dressing down in the restroom was excellently done. I think the audience had been jaded by too much of the west wing’s perspective and paranoia, and Atwater’s explanation was perfect. The discussion regarding past presidents (Truman, et al.) between Walken and the secretary was excellent, as was his show of emotion for the calls he made to the fallen soldiers’ families. All in all, what a cop out. Is a three-episode story arc so hard to do? There was more investigative sleuthing done when they found Bartlett’s would-be-assassinator. I’m so disappointed in that resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/12 "2003-10-02T15:49:51Z")
The whole episode just felt…rushed. I suppose it was supposed to mirror the frantic pace of how everyone felt, but no way was it right. I also disliked that Bartlett was allowed to pretty much wing his speech when he returned to office, which by the way, was a horrible speech. ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/13 "2003-10-02T16:07:08Z")
Re: VP An article I read about the new season said Gary Cole would end up being the nominee. I’m guessing the confirmation problems touched upon in the preview make things difficult for Devane. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/14 "2003-10-02T17:08:12Z")
The long stretches of silence bug me to death. It totally changes the dynamic of the show. And I agree with **Jello** that the relationship between the President and the staff has been changed dramatically. “Please, sit”? (There was another line that Bartlett said to Leo toward the end that was in the same vein. Not quite “that will be all”, but something close.) ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/15 "2003-10-02T17:37:21Z")
I really don’t see what the big deal was with the “please sit” comment. While I don’t feel that it was out of character for Bartlet, even if others felt it was, remember that BARTLET was out of character last night. I imagine that if your daughter is kidnapped and you haven’t slept for 50 hours, you might not exactly be yourself. His speech at the end, though, I’ll agree was terrible. Not just in the way it was written, but also in the way it was performed. It’s one of the few times I’ve been disappointed with Sheen’s performance during this series, but his ending speech didn’t capture any of the feeling of a President just come back or a man who found his daughter alive. I also hated the ending. They…just…found her? That’s the resolution? Well of COURSE they’re going to find her. That’s not what we were waiting for. We wanted to know HOW they were going to find her. This is writing 101 people: show don’t tell. I mean, we all knew the President was going to be reelected, but if C.J. came strolling into the Oval Office saying “good news, you won. Let’s go party” I’d have thrown a shoe at the television. And who throws a shoe? Honestly! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/16 "2003-10-02T18:14:58Z")
It was subtle, but they did explain how they found her. It was in the radio communication while they were showing everyone looking serious on the helicopter. Apparently Zoey had a cell phone on her, and called 911 while she was locked in the closet. The writers apparently want us to believe that 2 days after her kidnapping, the abductors still hadn’t frisked her for a cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/17 "2003-10-02T20:06:20Z")
Maybe she found a cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/18 "2003-10-02T20:08:56Z")
That’d be an even worse explanation. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/19 "2003-10-02T20:45:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > \*\* > > Did Josh’s girlfriend get a boob job? > \*\* My wife’s one comment while watching the show last night: “Look, new pillows.” Silly me not to notice. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046/20 "2003-10-02T21:05:46Z")
I don’t think that ZOEY had a cell phone. I think some random woman who was having a fight with someone else wandered off the road and stumbled upon the trailer, and then presumably noticed guys with rifles, or something. Besides, if Zoey had had a cell phone, what could she have told them? “I’m in a closet”? (Presumably, there could have been some cell phone tracing, but nothing of that sort was ever mentioned…) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-1-spoilers/205046.md?page=2)