# West Wing 10/23 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596 "2005-10-24T02:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/1 "2005-10-24T02:17:57Z")
I think this was the best episode of the season. Good acting, good writing and even good directing. The actions of Toby are thus far unknown but it wasn’t necessary right now to know motives. He did it and it was interesting to see the process that took place through the levels as his admission was revealed. Oliver Platt is fantastic in his role as White House Chief Counsel, as always. I thought the decision to film the news about Toby in the Oval Office from outside initially was interesting and it harkened back to same vantage point we saw the President learning of Mrs. Landingham’s demise. We already know, thanks to the purposeful flashback in the season opener, Toby won’t be serving 6 years in prison but one wonders if he’ll even serve the one for the misdemeanor. One question: The announcement to the press had to have come sometime around 10 at night. That’s just a guess but surely well after the WH called a full lid on the day’s events and the press went home for the night. So who was there to cover what was literally a spur of the moment decision by the President to address the nation? Overall a great episode. Can’t wait until next week. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/2 "2005-10-24T02:31:00Z")
Yes, a good episode. I thought it was well done that the episode featured scenes where no dialogue occured. In the old days they never stopped. Well done. The opening scene with Toby and CJ was great. She said she couldn’t talk any further and the scene continued without dialogue for another 30 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/3 "2005-10-24T03:37:03Z")
While I loved the fact that you didn’t hear what the President was initially saying to Toby was great, I thought the most touching part of the whole thing was CJ watching from outside the press conference. The pain of the whole thing was simply etched on her face. And as far as the lid being closed for the night, they mentioned that the statement was going to be in about 30 minutes. That’s more than enough time for the notification to go out to get the press back in there for the statement. Oh, and re: the previews for next week: poor Will - going straight to the firing squad. I think he’ll handle it reasonably well, but I don’t envy him AT ALL. Best “light” moment: Abby taking away the champagne flute after Ellie & the “fruit fly guy” reveal why they don’t want to postpone the wedding. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/4 "2005-10-24T04:18:10Z")
My prediction (not that anyone asked me): there’s more to the leak story than Toby’s confession. On advice of counsel, I decline to say any more. ---
**Author:** ![PigBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/5 "2005-10-24T04:41:42Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > My prediction (not that anyone asked me): there’s more to the leak story than Toby’s confession. On advice of counsel, I decline to say any more. Please wait quiety in this thread. Your office is being locked and its contents removed to be catalogued. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/6 "2005-10-24T04:46:16Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > The announcement to the press had to have come sometime around 10 at night. That’s just a guess but surely well after the WH called a full lid on the day’s events and the press went home for the night. So who was there to cover what was literally a spur of the moment decision by the President to address the nation? My guess is that some members of the press remain at the White House at night. Also, all I saw was a presidential address. No members of the press needed to be there for that. I suspect that federal employees can man the cameras and equipment necessary. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/7 "2005-10-24T04:52:11Z")
(I missed last week’s episode and the first ten minutes of tonight’s, so forgive me if this has been covered.) I think it’s worth pointing out that CJ’s obvious heartbreak over Toby’s situation is very fitting given that it was he who brought her on board the Bartlet campaign in the first place – way back when after she had just been fired from a Hollywood PR firm. The scene that showed Toby recruiting her – the one where CJ falls in the swimming pool, remember? – also made it apparent that Toby and CJ had had a long friendship (or at least working relationship) sometime prior to the Bartlet run. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/8 "2005-10-24T07:17:39Z")
I agree that this was a VERY strong episode. I particularly loved the little moment where the Bartletts confessed that they thought Ellie might be gay. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/9 "2005-10-24T08:42:07Z")
An excellent episode - not only the best one this season but one I think will be remembered as one of the best of the series. My favorite scene was the one between Bartlett and Toby in the Oval Office. Martin Sheen did a great job of showing his anger while underplaying it. The bit about it being Toby’s third letter of resignation and not accepting it. and the line “Some people are going to think you’re a hero…Don’t think I’m one of them.” A great scene. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/10 "2005-10-24T11:22:29Z")
Agree with everyone. Best line by Bartlett: “Toby. Is it possible to be astonished and at the same time not surprised?” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/11 "2005-10-24T11:45:01Z")
I hate the 8 P.M. Sunday timeslot. This is the thrid episode I’ve missed because I’m not used to WW on Sundays. I was actually watching the World Series pregame, bored out of my skull, when I remembered that WW was on. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/12 "2005-10-24T12:07:45Z")
I honestly had no idea what Jed and Abbey were talking about on their walk in to the residence until Abbey said the part about her daughter being straight. I agree that this episode is one of the classics. And I’m glad to see Josh Molina get more screentime again. He was always great while part of the inner sanctum, and became so very uninteresting once he started working for the VP. And like \*_Liberal_, that quote by Barlett was my favorite of the night. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/13 "2005-10-24T12:21:52Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > I think it’s worth pointing out that CJ’s obvious heartbreak over Toby’s situation is very fitting given that it was he who brought her on board the Bartlet campaign in the first place – way back when after she had just been fired from a Hollywood PR firm. The scene that showed Toby recruiting her – the one where CJ falls in the swimming pool, remember? – also made it apparent that Toby and CJ had had a long friendship (or at least working relationship) sometime prior to the Bartlet run. That’s exactly what was running through my mind last night as I watched, especially during the parts when they kept asking CJ what was going on & she couldn’t talk about it. And the rush of words when she told Will he was being promoted (which I guessed as soon as I saw Josh Molina in last night’s credits) was very telling. BTW, has anyone else noticed that with some of the more “peripheral” characters (Charlie, Will, Abby) that they’ve been rotating the credits & you can kind of tell what sorts of things will be going on by who is in the credits? Or am I seeing things & my memory is failing far more than it should be for a 36 year old? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/14 "2005-10-24T12:29:25Z")
I’ve been sure for weeks now that Toby was the leak. I thought it was pretty obvious. After last night’s episode (which I agree was one of the best in a long while), I’m equally convinced it was CJ and Toby took the bullet for her. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/15 "2005-10-24T13:12:43Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I’ve been sure for weeks now that Toby was the leak. I thought it was pretty obvious. > > After last night’s episode (which I agree was one of the best in a long while), I’m equally convinced it was CJ and Toby took the bullet for her. I doubt she’d let him do that. At least, not without argument. After all, Toby has kids. Nah, CJ felt was shocked/unsurprised as Bartlett. She may feel more guilt because, deep down inside, she agrees with him, but she still feels betrayed. Excellent episode. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/16 "2005-10-24T14:54:05Z")
Absolutely a great episode, especially with regards to Toby & CJ, but the Santos campaign moments were good, too. I loved the back-and-forth between Santos and his wife, especially the off-camera pbbbbbttt! And why is it that Santos is always walking out of the room, leaving Josh warily eyeing Mrs. Santos? You always know there’s going to be trouble when that happens. 🙂 And the poor guy who got axed, (Ned, right?) has been set up for a fall since the start, hasn’t he? Sucks that Santos didn’t tell him himself. ☹ I’m looking forward to some more Vinnick action. I thought I was gonna love Vinnick, but as we get to know him, he’s shaping up as a proper shades-of-gray villain. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/17 "2005-10-24T16:48:13Z")
Another great moment was Toby writing down the full names of Ed and Larry, rather than saying them out loud. And with a wistful smile, no less! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/18 "2005-10-24T17:32:34Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I’ve been sure for weeks now that Toby was the leak. I thought it was pretty obvious. > > After last night’s episode (which I agree was one of the best in a long while), I’m equally convinced it was CJ and Toby took the bullet for her. I’d been convinced for a while now that it wasn’t really Toby. Last night’s ep has put at least some doubt in my mind though. One thing occurred to me…maybe both Toby and C.J leaked it independent of each other. They really played up C.J’s conversations with the reporter last week. Margaret may have listened in on those calls, and she seems to think C.J. may be guilty. Or maybe things are just exactly as they appear. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/19 "2005-10-24T18:03:26Z")
> [@Indyellen](#): > > BTW, has anyone else noticed that with some of the more “peripheral” characters (Charlie, Will, Abby) that they’ve been rotating the credits & you can kind of tell what sorts of things will be going on by who is in the credits? Or am I seeing things & my memory is failing far more than it should be for a 36 year old? 😉 You’re not crazy. There was an article in T.V. Guide this week which said that certain characters (I know Charlie and Donna were mentioned) were only going to be included in the opening credits for episodes in which they actually appear. I agree with what everyone else has said about the quality of this episode. I had tears in my eyes at the end. I am still convinced that Toby, and Toby alone, was the leaker. And I still like Vinnick better than Santos. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596/20 "2005-10-24T18:16:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m equally convinced it was CJ and Toby took the bullet for her. That doesn’t make sense, because when they were alone together, he said something like “I did it.” If he knew she was the leaker, he would have said something more like “I’m going to tell the special investigator that I did it”, which legally speaking doesn’t implicate her or even cast suspicion, but does make the communication between the two of them more clear. Of course, it’s possible that they both did it without Toby knowing that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-23/327596.md?page=2)