# West Wing 10-31-01(SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 1, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844 "2001-11-01T02:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/21 "2001-11-01T23:21:15Z")
Here’s my take on this-- all this business of CJ memorizing bio data on the chemist, etc. is simply to show that she is nervous about the dinner, as in “omigod, what’ll I talk about with this person!” She copes with this by trying to “study her way out” of the problem. What I don’t get is the whole elbow thing. It seemed to have something to do with sports. Baseball? But what does which player actually do with his elbow, or whoever’s elbow? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/22 "2001-11-02T00:19:43Z")
Throwing an elbow: In basketball, if you are rebounding a missed shot, it will often be useful to acquire control of the ball, and then whirl around with your elbows extended outwards. This clears out any pesky opponents, and gives you more room to operate, next time (through fear of getting an elbow in the face). It’s also dirty play, but quite common. The anecdote Leo told was about legendary Boston Celtics star Bill Russell, who was too sportsmanlike to throw elbows. His coach told him that if he did it once, he wouldn’t need to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/23 "2001-11-02T00:20:59Z")
Bill Russell, a basketball player who was considered soft, would hit another player with his elbow in a high profile game during a typical altercation under the basket. People would see it and realize he wasn’t soft. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/24 "2001-11-02T00:33:56Z")
It might also be pointed out to the non-sports fan that Bill Russell was huge, and even more so by the standard of the day. Not too many people could take getting whacked by one of his elbows nor would be likely to want another one. For a smaller player it would be much less effective as a one time tactic and would likely invite retribution. We’ll see soon if the Bartlett White House is Bill Russell, or might more aptly be compared to Danny Ainge. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/25 "2001-11-02T01:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > \*\*I wonder how many 8th graders know why Sodium is represented by “Na”? I’m guessing none. I didn’t know - and I aced AP Chem way back when. > > And when she later ends her rebuke of the fashion reporter with “and the chemical formula for table salt is NaCl”, she did so completely under her breath, towards an audience of only herself - the reporter at this point would have been far down the hallway.\*\* Fair enough. However, I still think its a silly fact for any educated person to make an issue of, even to yourself. Now she could have merely been beating herself up for not being quicker on the uptake when the President said, “NaCl, CJ,” but when she started hitting the periodic table and looking up _natrium_, she lost me. (And **Munch** , did you never wonder _why_ the symbol for _sodium_ is “Na?” 🙂 I certainly discuss the history of element names with my students.) In any event, in my experience, there are two chemical formulas that no student can manage _not_ to learn: NaCl and H[sub]2[/sub]O. Not to mention the whole concept of chemical formulas. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > **Here’s my take on this-- all this business of CJ memorizing bio data on the chemist, etc. is simply to show that she is nervous about the dinner, as in “omigod, what’ll I talk about with this person!” She copes with this by trying to “study her way out” of the problem.** This was my wife’s point as well. In addition, her nervousness was just comic relief. Not surprisingly, she thought I made way too much of the chemistry thing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/26 "2001-11-02T03:10:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShibbOleth \* > \*\*We’ll see soon if the Bartlett White House is Bill Russell, or might more aptly be compared to Danny Ainge. \*\* Bite someone? Throw a ball in their face? That crazy Aaron Sorkin! As for CJ looking up the periodic table, that may have been less so for the scientist than for the Prez. I imagine minute facts like the Latin root for Na come in handy in the Bartlett White House. And one poster mistook the Bill Russell of this episode for a baseball player. There is an ex-ball player by that name. He was a Dodger great and was recently the skipper of the Dodgers. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/27 "2001-11-02T06:42:29Z")
Bill Russell was a former Dodger. But he was not a former Dodger great. ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/28 "2001-11-02T11:23:54Z")
What you would have heard watching the show with me during the first Oval Office scene: **C.J.** : They speak in letters that don’t spell anything but actually mean table salt. **king of spain** : Table salt’s NaCl! How hard is that? **Bartlet** : NaCl, C.J. Table salt is NaCl. **king of spain** : I love you, Jed. To be fair, although I’d thought NaCl was common knowledge - I _hated_ chemistry, and I remember it - judging by what I’ve read on some West Wing boards about this episode, lots of otherwise smart, educated people didn’t know it. So there you go. Anyway, I thought it was a good episode - not up to the standard of the last 3, but a hell of a lot better than “Isaac and Ishmael.” Nice to see the gang interacting without any of those irritating campaign people around again. The subplot about the suicide bomber, oddly, just left me cold, but the rest was very good. Other specifics: - Poor, sweet, loyal Charlie. I admire his persistence in not accepting immunity, but it seems like there’s an obvious solution here. Most of the staff probably have law degrees, right? I’m certain that at least Sam practiced law before joining the Bartlet campaign. So couldn’t they try to find some old law school buddy to take Charlie’s case pro bono? It seems like it’d be a good way for a lawyer to build up a reputation, not that I really know about this sort of thing. - Mmm…Josh in a tux. - Is this shaping up to be the Year of C.J. or what? Girlfriend’s kicking ass and taking names for the second week in a row. - The Josh and Donna subplot…grr. Next week they’d better have a damn good reason why Donna and Cliff agreed to meet again. Donna’s got some self-esteem issues, but there’s no excuse for painting her as either stupid enough or self-absorbed enough to jeopardize the administration in that way. And Cliff seemed to understand the situation perfectly well too. _If_ they can clear that up, though, I think this storyline’s got a lot of potential, with Josh’s feelings of betrayal and Donna apparently lying to Congress next week and everything. - **watsonwil** , I think it’s unfair to say that all good Republicans have to recant their conservative ideals on this show. Certainly I haven’t noticed Ainsley doing that - in fact, she seemed to win Sam over on a few points. - I spent the entire show trying to figure out where I’d seen that former football player guy Josh was meeting with before. Finally I realized he’s, um, the evil orphanage owner from _Newsies_ - Really nice work by the NBC promo department this time - I’m excited about next week now. It’s almost enough to make up for that idiotic “don’t miss the last five minutes” thing they did for the episode where Mrs. Landingham died. (“Yeah, I was gonna turn off the tv at 8:55 like I always do, and look what would’ve happened! Thank you, NBC!”) ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/29 "2001-11-02T18:41:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by king of spain \* > **watsonwil** , I think it’s unfair to say that all good Republicans have to recant their conservative ideals on this show. Certainly I haven’t noticed Ainsley doing that - in fact, she seemed to win Sam over on a few points. Yeah, but with Ainsley, they have turned her into a neurotic freak. I am less concerned with them treating Republicans shabbily then I am with them painting halos on everyone else. > [@](#): > > - Really nice work by the NBC promo department this time - I’m excited about next week now. It’s almost enough to make up for that idiotic “don’t miss the last five minutes” thing they did for the episode where Mrs. Landingham died. (“Yeah, I was gonna turn off the tv at 8:55 like I always do, and look what would’ve happened! Thank you, NBC!”) Could be worse. Apparently you only have to watch the FIRST fifteen minutes of Survivor next week. They actually promoted the FIRST FIFTEEN MINUTES! Aside: Every time I read your username, I can’t stop humming that Sting Song, King of Pain. _[sub]I’ll always be…King of Spain! I’ll Always be…King of Spain![/sub]_ ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/30 "2001-11-02T19:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by king of spain \* > **- I spent the entire show trying to figure out where I’d seen that former football player guy Josh was meeting with before. Finally I realized he’s, um, the evil orphanage owner from _Newsies_** Kevin Tighe, best known to me as Roy DeSoto on Emergency! He was also the bar owner in the movie Roadhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/31 "2001-11-02T21:39:51Z")
I always knew him as Sport Sullivan from Eight Men Out. I thought he had the Irish Accent. ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/32 "2001-11-02T23:16:11Z")
I love the show, I love CJ, everything is good but here’s the kicker - I missed the season premier, and I have no idea what she said about Haiti that was so horrible/incorrect/unforgettable? Help me out here, I’m hurtin’ real bad. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/33 "2001-11-02T23:45:15Z")
CJ was getting pounded by the press about Bartlett’s MS and the upcoming investigations. One question concerned whether the president was physically able to handle the Haiti crisis; CJ snapped back that he was actually relieved to have something significant to work on. Which made it look like Bartlett was glad that there was death and misery in Haiti, to take the heat off his personal problems. ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/34 "2001-11-03T18:45:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by watsonwil \* > **Yeah, but with Ainsley, they have turned her into a neurotic freak. I am less concerned with them treating Republicans shabbily then I am with them painting halos on everyone else.** _shrug_ I like Ainsley, but whatever. > [@](#): > > \*\*Aside: Every time I read your username, I can’t stop humming that Sting Song, King of Pain. > > _[sub]I’ll always be…King of Spain! I’ll Always be…King of Spain![/sub]_ \*\* Heh. Got the wrong song, though…I take it you’re not familiar with [Moxy Fruvous](http://fruvous.com/barglyr.html#spain)? ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/35 "2001-11-04T02:23:06Z")
I swear I thought I was hitting preview. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844/36 "2001-11-04T06:24:50Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by king of spain \* \*\* > [@](#): > > _shrug_ I like Ainsley, but whatever. > \*\* Eh… I like her too, but I also liked Cosmo Kramer. Asking for people’s muffins during a meeting? I swear I thought she was going to turn up pregnant, but it was just another quirk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-10-31-01-spoilers/90844.md?page=1)